On 02/16/2015 at 07:47 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Christian Seiler
> <christ...@iwakd.de> wrote:
> 
>> Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
>> 
>>> http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/
>> 
>> It's funny that when Wheezy (not Jessie!) came out, nobody
>> complained that libsystemd-login0 (which is now part of
>> libsystemd0) was as a dependency of dbus, so it is probably already
>> installed on most desktop systems running current Debian stable.
> 
> i'll hazard a guess that it's because they had no idea that, in the
> very near future, all the major desktop developers and all the major
> distros would make the unilateral decision to hard-code the
> *exclusive* use of systemd (or parts of it).
> 
> my assessment is that it's that total lack of choice that is causing
> people to get so upset.  but there's no need to get upset about it:
> *we didn't know*. nobody could have predicted how far this would go,
> so quickly.
> 
> so the question then becomes: at a fundamental level (in a
> distro-agnostic way) how to go about giving people a proper choice
> (to run systemd and associated components, or not)?

As Russ pointed out in a thread on -project last month: either revive
ConsoleKit, or reimplement logind in a way which isn't dependent on
systemd, and do either or both in a way which is acceptable to all
relevant upstreams (including PolicyKit).

Adam Borowski already mentioned consolekit2 and loginkit, which sound
like attempts to do exactly those two things. I don't know how
successful they would be, but that would be the path to take.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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