[2016-08-29 18:30] Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> > > part text/plain 1918 > Dmitry Bogatov <kact...@ruggedinbox.com> writes: > > > Socket is not bad thing. Inventing daemon for no reason is complicating > > things for no reason => bad. Thanks history, we have pid files, not > > `libpid' to talk to `pidd'. > > Uh, the daemon in question is the init daemon? Which has been there since > the beginning of UNIX? You kind of need that daemon. You can't do > without it. :)
I know that pid 1 is daemon, that one must have. And this daemon, for sake of simplicity, should just boot system. I do not buy your argument, that since we already have daemon, lets just put another optional functionality in it. > PID files are an ugly hack and have *always* been an ugly hack. I cannot > tell you the number of obnoxious edge cases I've had to deal with around > PID files: files getting created at the wrong time, with the wrong > ownership, in directories that aren't writable by the process and > therefore fail, with invalid contents, or truncated, or reused for some > other purpose and now with bizarre and undocumented syntax, or kept around > after the host reboots and they become irrelevant, or used entirely > unsafely because the original daemon is long-gone, the PID space has > wrapped, and now that PID is pointing to sshd and gets happily killed by > something that blindly trusts the PID file. They're not something anyone > would want to use voluntarily. I agree, that pid-files are not blessing, especially when we have runit/daemontools/s6, which makes them unneeded. But if I had to choose between pidfiles or linking to `libpid' to talk with `pidd' (especially, if it is part of pid 1), I would choose pidfiles. > > I would be interested to know of more selling points of libsystemd, but > > discussion how to implement them in simple way does not belong to > > debian-devel, but to upstream projects lists. > > I'm discussing it on debian-devel because so many of the arguments against > systemd on the grounds of its supposed contrariness to UNIX demonstrate > the most appalling ignorance of UNIX, and I think it's useful to talk > about *specifics* instead of general political positions on systemd as an > abstract Platonian ideal. We're making a free UNIX distribution. We > should care *deeply* about the specifics; that's the best way to make good > decisions. And we should be connoisseurs of good ideas, whatever their > source. -- Accept: text/plain, text/x-diff Accept-Language: eo,en,ru X-Web-Site: sinsekvu.github.io