Hi Chris! On 03/28/2018 06:01 PM, Chris Lamb wrote: > May I gently and cordially ask for a toning down of the rhethoric > in this thread? :)
Yes, of course. But Andreas hit a nerve with this on me. This project has cost me lots of blood, tears and sweat and if someone is asking for it to be completely thrown out out of nothing, I'm getting a bit stressed out. > Whilst everyone would agree that the m68k port has its problems and is > certainly capable of imposing undue drain on developer time, I'm sure > most would also understand and perhaps even relate to Andreas' > frustrations. Well, we as porters and buildd maintainers have also had lots of frustration with packages from Debian Science. There were many issues even on release architectures which arose due to the poor quality of the scientific packages. Some people from the Debian Science team have previously abused the buildds as test machines instead of using the various porter boxes the project offers for such purposes so that I eventually had to send out a mail asking them to stop doing that. On the other hand, we often send patches not just for ports architectures but also release architectures to help fix bugs in packages from the Debian Science team. So it's not that we are not willing to help and make their life easier. > However, that's no real excuse for such an opening salvo to a public > list and, whilst I do not condone them either, one should not be overly > surprised to receive defensive and generally unproductive replies to > such a posting. Indeed. The point is: Everyone sees a different purpose and usecase in Debian. And while for Andreas Debian is the basis for doing scientific work, for me Debian is the basis for hacking on projects like QEMU, various compilers and the kernel. And many people in- and outside Debian Ports enjoy doing that as well. It's a valid usecase in my opinion. And, yes, as crazy as this all sounds, people actually use Debian on m68k, those machines are particularly popular in Germany, for example. Debian calls itself the "Universal Operating System" after all and therefore no single user or developer should get to tell others what to do with Debian or not. > In my experience, most arguments (not "mere" disagreements) have stemmed > from regrettable miscommunication but all of them have ever helped by an > argumentative or combative character, especially ones underlined with > threats. Well, if Andreas wouldn't have asked for the ultima ratio right from the beginning, there would probably have been a more constructive discussion. I am always open to discussion and would like to help the project and other members whereever I can. In this particular case the solution is actually rather simple: My suggestion would be that anyone who is about to write bug reports against issues on the ports architectures just joins #debian-ports and quickly asks for feedback before filing a bug report. In most cases, people will get a helpful answer as we have many competent and motivated folks on the channel who are always open to help. So, I'd like to invite people to please just ask on #debian-ports in the future before filing bug reports which could cause such misunderstandings. Thanks, Adrian -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913