On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 12:30:50AM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 at 14:27:21 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > to understand the impact that a change to the size of
> > time_t will have on a library's ABI, it must be possible to compile the
> > headers that expose that API

> Would the results of this analysis also be suitable for telling
> interested maintainers whether it's safe to opt-in a library to LFS
> and/or 64-bit time_t on i386, so that it will use 64-bit-time_t-safe
> glibc functions internally?

> (For example libdbus is already opted-in to LFS, and I'm reasonably
> sure it doesn't break public ABI under 64-bit time_t either, because it
> has a policy of avoiding most inclusions of system headers in its own
> public API)

Yes, there's sufficient information in the analysis to determine this.

> > The Ubuntu Foundations team have been putting in effort over the past two
> > months, package-by-package, to figure out how to make them compile so that
> > we know if their ABI is affected.

> Is there a reasonably simple way that interested developers can try this
> process for a package that they maintain?

Thanks for the PR[0] :)

> I realise your analysis has been done on armhf, but i386 would probably be
> an easier (and faster!) 32-bit architecture to deal with for many
> developers, even though we don't intend to do the 64-bit time_t transition
> systematically on i386.

Yes, for individual package analysis in Debian, i386 is likely better.  If
we're not actually doing 64-bit time_t for i386, it's better to use armhf
for the list of -dev packages to analyze - second to i386, it's going to
have the highest number of arch-specific -dev packages of any 32-bit arch.
And in Ubuntu of course, we've already dropped the vast majority of these
packages on i386 so there's nothing to analyze against.  But in Debian,
given a list of -dev packages that are applicable to armhf, it's almost
certainly faster for folks to do the analysis against i386.

> > The "good" news is that, although there are over 1500 -dev packages yet to
> > be analyzed, we have prioritized libraries based on the number of
> > reverse-dependencies

> Is the list you attached already in descending order by number of rdeps?

It was not.  I've attached that list now.  (And eventually I'll dd-list-ify
it if there's agreement on this path forward.)

> > libsdl1.2-compat-dev

> The source package src:sdl12-compat recently took over libsdl1.2-dev
> and libsdl1.2debian from the older src:libsdl1.2, which gives it quite
> a lot of rdeps (I know because I did a mass bug filing for them!),
> so having an answer for that one might reduce the rebuilds better than
> you might think. I suspect it actually won't have time_t in its ABI,
> although I could be wrong.

Thanks.  I didn't mention, but there are definitely some false-negatives in
this list, because of e.g. all of the packages actually build-depend on a
metapackage -dev which doesn't actually contain the headers.  libboost-dev
is an example, which is prominent enough that we noticed it and manually
prioritized it.  I'll have a look at sdl as well for sure.

It would probably give us a more precise count if, instead of looking at
reverse-build-deps on associated -dev packages, we scanned the archive for
all packages shipping .shlibs and/or .symbols files and then looked at
reverse-dependencies of the packages named in those control files.  That
would take rather a bit more effort however since it would involve unpacking
the whole archive, and it doesn't matter for the actual transition which
will be based on binary package revdeps regardless, it only matters for the
question of prioritizing fails-to-compile headers for analysis.

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                   https://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com                                     vor...@debian.org

[0] https://salsa.debian.org/vorlon/armhf-time_t/-/merge_requests/96
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