* Hakan Bayındır <ha...@bayindir.org> [240529 07:51]:
> On 28.05.2024 ÖS 8:16, Andreas Metzler wrote:
> > On 2024-05-28 Luca Boccassi <bluca-8fiuurrzop0dnm+yrof...@public.gmane.org>
> > wrote:
> > [...]
> > > - existing installations pre-trixie will get an orphaned tmpfiles.d in
> > > /etc/ that keeps the existing behaviour unchanged (no cleanup of
> > > /var/tmp)
> > [...]
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I think it is bad choice to deliberately have different behavior for
> > freshly installed and upgraded systems. Offering upgrades has always
> > been one of the major selling points of Debian, and imho this
> > implicitely includes that you do not get a worse or second class Debian
> > installation when you upgrade it than if you installed from scratch.
> >
> > cu Andreas
>
> I'll kindly disagree here.
While I agree with Andreas that having the same behavior for upgraded
systems and new installations is generally better, I agree with you that
in this specific case it is not the better choice.
> I'd rather not have to go back to every system
> and make sure that they all behave the way I want after doing a periodic,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> completely boring "apt-get upgrade".
You haven't specified what behavior you want. Is it the existing
behavior or the new behavior? This thread is exactly about choosing
between the two, and possibly between different behavior for new and
existing systems.
There are four combinations of old/new behavior and upgrading/new
installation. Eliminating the obviously bad combination, we are left
with three:
A. Keep old behavior for both upgrading and new installations.
B. Keep old behavior for upgrading, use new behavior for new installations.
C. Apply new behavior for both.
The new behavior is preferable for many use cases, but the old behavior
is not a "BUG" that must be fixed. Debian has had the old behavior for
a very long time.
A number of people have spoken up on this list saying that they are
relying on the old behavior, and that changing to the new behavior could
potentially cause serious data loss.
Some people have stated an opinion that keeping upgraded systems in sync
with the behavior of new installations is desirable.
So to choose between A, B, and C, we must rank the following:
X. desirability of new behavior
Y. preventing data loss for an unspecified, but non-zero, number of
existing systems
Z. desirability of having upgraded systems match new installations.
Both X and Z are primarily opinions with some (non-overwhelming)
technical merit to each.
Sufficient technical arguments have been provided on this meta-thread to
support that Y is highly important and also more important than both X
and Z. This means that choice C fails.
If Z were more important than X, then the order of importance would
become Y, then Z, then X, which would make choice A the winner.
However, there have been no technical arguments whatsoever that Z is
more important than either of X or Y, only a few personal opinions.
And, from the discussion, the consensus appears to be that X is more
important than Z, so the order is Y, then X, then Z.
This gives us choice B as the winner.
It also looks like Luca Boccassi has already made the changes to effect
choice B. Thank you, Luca!
,,,Marvin
