On Thu, Dec 09, 1999 at 10:20:05PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: > On Mon, Dec 06, 1999 at 01:56:31AM -0500, Caspian wrote: > > > I'd just like to add my two cents (they're rather big...perhaps > > they're two dollars?) to this little discussion. > > > [342 line rant deleted] > > i think you exaggerate just a little :)
hehe :) > some points that need to be made in response (in random order, as i > thought of them): > > 1a. free software survived - flourished, even - long before your Joe > WinIdiot even noticed that it existed. there is no reason at all that it > will not continue to do so. > > 1b. Joe WinIdiot is irrelevant to the success of free software because > Joe Winidiot will *never* contribute a single line of code to any free > software project. success for free software depends on developers, not > users. I always hoped some of this Windiots will contribute translations at least. > 1c. free software is getting better every day. more programs, better > programs. things that nobody would have even considered doing as a free > software project a few years ago are now being done. we've got the > operating system, and the tools...now the apps. [ snip all the True(tm) you said ] > 7. error messages are primarily for the programmer, not the user. > their main purpose is to provide enough diagnostic information so the > programmer can figure out what/where the bug is. This ext2 error messages which went to my console sometimes are not for programers. They are for notifying me I should go single-user and run `fsck -f'. But this can be really said better. > 8. we *have* good GUIs. > > the fact that they may not be the same kind of GUI that your Joe > Winidiot might choose to use is irrelevant. our needs are different to > Mr JW. Hell, our needs are different from each others which is why we > have dozens of window managers and several GUIs to choose from. If you name GUI xwm, then yes. If you name GUI the whole desktop, then no. > 9. we don't need visual C++ or anything like it. we really don't want > the illiterate barbarian hordes of windows programmers filling the free > software archives with incomprehensible cargo-cult programming crap. > if someone can't program without such tools then they have no business > calling themselves a programmer and they should start studying for a > more appropriate career (practicing "would you like fries with that, > sir?" would be about right) I think perl/Gtk is much easier than VC++ for newbie, who want to start programming. And this is very enough for little tools. [ snip all the True(tm) you said ] > 13. yes, i am an arrogant elitist bastard. i don't care. me too > 14. the Joe Winidiots of this world may not be capable of installing or > running Linux by themselves, but they aren't capable of installing or > running Windows or MS Word either. this is why most companies spend a > fortune on technical support staff, help-desks, and support contracts. > > 15. most of those support staff are barely more computer-literate > than the people they are helping...but it's damn easy to sound like > an "expert" when your boss isn't capable of understanding what you're > talking about either. Someday we will have to make moron-installable distro. > 16. if you see a need then start coding. don't waste everyone's time by > telling us what we *should* be doing. See all of pico/pine cloning discussion. They talk half a week, and probably didnt make a line of code. If clone wont be at least semi-ready until early February (winter holidays here) Im going to do it myself.