>>"Ian" == Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ian> I think you must have a different experience to me. I've found Ian> that many developers don't seem to share enough of the context Ian> and unspoken rules.
I agree that develoeprs may come from different cultures and contexts -- but humans have been herd animals ancestors since pre Homo Afarensis, and the ability to interact in a social group is a common trait amongst human tribes. Ian> I think writing them down will help. I Going down and writing too musch simplitic detail loses the relevant content in a forest of inanity. Ian> also think it might produce some useful pressure on those people Ian> who ought to know better but lapse occasionally. (And I'm not Ian> excluding myself here.) Ian> If you still disagree with me on this, I don't really see that I'm Ian> going to make much headway with addressing that point, because it's a Ian> fundamental part of the purpose and style of what I'm trying to Ian> achieve - ie, I don't think I'd do justice to your opinions even if I Ian> put aside my disagreement. Since I do still disagree, I suspect that this shuts out most of my contribution to your document. Ian> It's also really difficult to have a sensible conversation about these Ian> questions, because they are so subjective. Ian> I would say: does it really hurt so much to have a few platitudes, and Ian> some motherhood and apple pie ? It seems that you're not actually Ian> disagreeing with what's said, but just saying that it shouldn't be Ian> said at all even though it's true - which seems strange to me. It is a matter of presentation. A guide book on ettiquette needs to get the buy in of the people that are supposed to accept and follow it (unless it is meant to be rammed down the projects throat by fiat). And large tracts that irritate people (well, they irritate me, and I am projecting that I am not the only one), then the whole document stands in danger of being dismissed. Ian> My experience is that sensible conversations about eg bug Ian> reports can easily become derailed by categorical statements Ian> like that by the maintainer. The results are often that the Ian> submitter just gets angry, and things go downhill from there. Yes. But I contend that there are still situations where a categorical statement _is_ the only correct response -- and I do think that there are scenrarios where being up front an honest rather then equivocating in order not to ``hurt'' feeling is better. I am not advocating one needs be abrasive and in your face. Can we just tone down the paragraph, and state instead that in most cases, one should examine the issue with care before making categorical statements, since often categorical statements made in the heat of debate may lock one in an untenable position when tempers cool? Ian> So, I strongly disagree - I think these comments are important, and Ian> the fact that you disagree with them shows that at least they're not Ian> content-free ... The difference is mostly one of presentation, and how condescending the paragraph appears. Reasonable people, current company included, have made similar errors. Talking down to them like they are social misfits rubs people the wrong way. >> > 6. Bug report etiquette Ian> I've run out of time for this in-detail writing now, but I'll deal Ian> with this section of your mail later. manoj -- Trailing Edge Technologies is pleased to announce the following TETflame programme: For a negotiated price (no quatloos accepted) one of our flaming representatives will flame the living shit out of the poster of your choice. The price is inversly proportional to how much of an asshole the target it. We cannot be convinced to flame Dennis Ritchie. Matt Crawford flames are free. For a negotiated price (same arrangement) the TETflame programme is offering ``flame insurence''. Under this arrangement, if one of our policy holders is flamed, we will cancel the offending article and flame the flamer, to a crisp. The TETflame flaming representatives include: Richard Sexton, Oleg Kisalev, Diane Holt, Trish O'Tauma, Dave Hill, Greg Nowak and our most recent aquisition, Keith Doyle. But all he will do is put you in his kill file. Weemba by special arrangement. Richard Sexton Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/> 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C