Steve Langasek wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 04:46:56PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote: > > > On Thu January 31 2008 9:35:08 am Richard Hecker wrote:
> [#debian-women on irc.oftc.net] is to be an entry point for women to get involved in Debian development, Before somebody even dares to battle male people who join that channel I want to make one thing clear. Women have a hard stand on the Internet, because some men are looking for a girlfriend there and they dont respect a clear "no" from a woman when she is not even interested in a polite and clean conversation. I support women rights because I am an advocate of humanity. But when you do a /whois on a person on IRC and join a channel that is listed there because the channel sounds interesting to you, it might happen that you are called a stalker in public and massive attacks break lose. I hope everybody is able to see that the problem is not on side of the person who does a /whois. Of course all who flame are just aiming to protect that poor woman from a stalker. That situation is growing out to the fact that useful IRC features are completely disabled. Does that sound familiar to you from the daily politics news in your country? Exactly. Problem solution totally out of line. But some men prefer to talk to women because its more interesting to learn about their point of view. Some men dont want to be constantly challenged by other men about the bigger build logs, the best code or the ultimate tool. Some men have the hope that the women they meet have better social skills than men, that they can benefit from that. Some men have the hope that the women they meet are more open minded. Some men have the hope that the women they meet are not constantly trying to appear cool and superior. And please dont even try to lead a debate about feminism now. I am just trying to give you an idea why not all men who are looking for the attention of women are stalkers or sexist monsters. And they dont have to be the other extreme, too. They dont have to be submissive puppies to be welcome, right? > the ops are cognizant of the impact that gender ratio has on its > usefulness in furthering this goal. So it was just politics that were not made visible? And they have to be enforced in a violent way? > We routinely ask men who aren't part of the Debian development > community to leave the channel, You speak as Debian Developer and Cannonical employee and you are not truthfully speaking, Steve. The first decision you and other responsible people have to take in a transparent and honest way is, if you would like to have an open community or a restrictive environment. When you made that decision you need to take the proper actions. But when you sell an open community to the people and do everything behind the scenes to manipulate and restrict the way people are communicating, then you do evil. > I admit that the timing of the kickban was somewhat kneejerk on my part Maybe because your private mission is to hunt the paddy. And you do not only abuse your position and priviledges to battle a person who is miles below your position and rank, you also manipulate and play the cabal on me. Thats a tragedy. But the following is addressed to all Debian Developers. All I ever wanted was to be part of the debian community and contribute. No matter where I was going on IRC and the mailing lists I was either silent observer or even target of violent communication. Thats very much frustrating when human rights apply to a piece of paper that is used to represent a software license, but human rights do not apply to all the people who use Debian and who care for Debian. And I express all this in public not only to fight back and to try to be accepted as the person who I am. I also think its about time that somebody has the courage to name a massive problem, while you guys claim that no Debian Developer will hide problems. In the last years the lot of hostile attitude and the lot of violent communication turned a lot of people into enemies. These people came in peace like me. They were caring for the same goals like you. But ego battles seemed more important than turning dedicated people into advocates. For me that means that you dont understand the real power of open source and free software movements. As I need to learn to understand what makes me feel aggressive and why it makes me feel aggressive to be able to deal with it as a person who values positive ethics and human rights, its also your duty to constantly do exactly that. The higher your social status and the higher your priviledges, the more I expect from you. peace, paddy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]