> Please save your rants for when you are in the bar with your friends. I don't see where *I* did write some rants, I just asked for understanding of the users' problems.
And with all your suggestions there is one problem - nobody but initiated can actually contribute documentation. Since I broke my own promise not to get involved in any d-p -r d-d thread on systemd*&friends, I stop here and wish you all the best. Enjoy Norbert On Wed, 23 Sep 2015, Ian Jackson wrote: > Norbert Preining writes ("Re: "Do you want to mount the drive, 'cancel' or > 'allow'?""): > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Ian Jackson wrote: > > > If you don't like systemd or policykit, why are you running them ? > > > > There is and remains the problem that the current situation and > > working is not properly documented, nor can it be deduced from reading > > config files under /etc, which was the case before the switch. > > > > Before deriding people who have problems, we as DDs should accept that > > what we ship now as default works in many cases, but when it does > > *NOT* work, the user is in a very bad situation - as the system is > > undocumented and intransparent and without documentation accessible > > in an acceptable way. > > There are a range of possible responses to this kind of situation: > > 1. One could conclude that the defaults are unsuitable for most users > and argue that they should be changed. But, we all of us have a > responsibility to respect the decisions we have collectively made > as a project, in some cases with our last ditch governance > processes. Reopening such debates is not constructive or helpful, > even if we still disagree with them. > > 2. One could conclude that it is too hard or too complex for users to > choose non-default configurations. If you think this is the case > then there are a lot of practical things which could be done: > - The information on the wiki could be improved > - Alternative unofficial installer images could be provided > - It could be make easier to make lightweight derivatives of > Debian (this is something I myself am keen on) > - You could work on alternative setups in existing Debian > derivatives. (There is nothing wrong with being a DD and > also, or even primarily, using and working on a derivative.) > - Insert your idea here. > > 3. One could conclude that the default mechanisms need to be better > documented or more transparent and configurable. I don't know > whether the Debian maintainers of the relevant pieces would > welcome efforts to improve these things, but a _friendly_ and > _respectful_ approach would be the way to start. Again, of > course, anyone can edit the wiki. > > None of these things involve ranting on mailing lists. Ranting on > mailing lists about how awful modern pointyclicky integration stuff is > is pointless. > > It may make you feel better, but it makes the atmosphere in the lists > worse. It discourages the very people who might be able to help > improve the things you are complaining about. And it does nothing to > help any of the people who agree with you, or the users who are > affected by the problems you percieve. > > Please save your rants for when you are in the bar with your friends. > > Ian. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PREINING, Norbert http://www.preining.info JAIST, Japan TeX Live & Debian Developer GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 ------------------------------------------------------------------------