>>>>> "Norbert" == Norbert Preining <prein...@logic.at> writes:
>> only. It's scary to think that its intention is to also replace a >> tool like bootstrap-vz that has been used for years, is currently >> maintained and is pretty stable. Specially when not even >> mentioning this to the Debian Cloud Team. Norbert> Read up on recent - let's say - slightly surprising and Norbert> unconcerted forceful takeover of live-build. Norbert> It speaks stories about what has become possible in Debian. Hi. first, I really appreciate all the work that has gone into live-build, which I've used for years, and which I have the experience to appreciate. I' also appreciate the work that has gone into vmdebootstrap and debootstrap-vz, which I've never personally used. Speaking as someone who has used Debian images from a lot of different sources and someone interested in consistency, it would be good if we did work to get to a point where: 1) All these images are consistent. I think I want the same things from an image I install on a VM, an image I install in a private cloud and an image I install on a public cloud. I think I want the same thing out of a live image where I've removed live-boot and live-config. 2) As someone who ends up building cloud images for my business, building live images, and who has build installers and images for small derivatives, I'd really appreciate fewer rather than more tools. This is an area where I think it's important to be consistent and to spend the extra effort to get tools that work for everyone. Speaking as an individual member of the TC, I'd like to see us do that in a way that grows our project and empowers our contributors. It really really sucks to spend effort on a project and have your effort not acknowledged, or taken into account. For myself at least I find disagreement, especially when my input was considered, much easier to take than what feels like the lack of respect that comes from being ignored or discarded without being involved in the process. I fully realize that a simpler explanation for those feelings is sometimes that people didn't know about my efforts. It sounds like we have some important work to do here to reconcile some differences and get to a point where we're a project on this issue rather than a collection of disconnected teams and views. I think image creation is important enough where that is very much worth doing. --Sam