>>>>> "Don" == Don Armstrong <d...@debian.org> writes:
Don> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, Sam Hartman wrote: >> 3) Similar to 2. I don't think you can take off any hats you do >> have when sending such mails. If you have a role in our account, >> antiharassment, conduct, listmaster, moderation, or other related >> processes, you can't really ever give that up when talking to >> people about conduct. People will hear, and to some large extent >> should hear your message with the hat, even if you intend it >> without the hat. >> >> And so, I think you need to take the same level of responsibility >> and care for anything unofficial that you would for something >> more official, because it's subject to the same potential for >> abuse. Don> Taking care and responsibility is appropriate (and I believe Don> everyone in these difficult roles does so.) Don> However, taking the same level of care and responsibility would Don> necessitate running any message I send by all of the other team Don> members before sending it.[1] That would mean I'll never point Don> out sub-optimal behavior until it reaches a level which is bad Don> enough that it's worth wasting everyone else's time to craft Don> such a warning. [Usually after multiple complaints.] So, when you do that, it sounds like you're trying to duck accountability. It sounds like you're telling me that if I have a problem with your actions, I cannot complain about it as an listmaster action. And yet, since you are a listmaster, some day you may choose to act as a listmaster. And since it has a similar chilling effect on speech, I'm very uncomfortable with that approach. If I had to choose between you sending personal warnings that had no accountability and you only acting after reviewing with the entire rest of the team, I'd be more comfortable with the project in which you didn't send the warnings until they rose to the level where the entire team needed to be involved. But that seems a false dichotomy to me. It seems like you could act as an individual listmaster who has not reviewed things with the rest of the team. "It's my opinion as an individual listmaster that you are violating our code of conduct... If you disagree, you can talk to me or the rest of the listmasters..." By acting as an individual listmaster, you make it clear that I have a path for a second opinion: asking the other listmasters. But you also make it clear that if the community has concerns about the aggregate actions of the individual listmasters, we can also take that up with the listmasters. So, you can send mails promptly without seeking review, provided the other listmasters are OK with that. If they aren't, well, that's a fairly good sign you shouldn't do it as an individual either. --Sam