>>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> writes:
Russ> Sam Hartman <hartm...@debian.org> writes: Russ> I dunno, I realize I may be being too cavalier here, but see Russ> the point above about making more decisions, faster, and Russ> accepting a few mistakes. If we end up with a rash of bogus Russ> warnings, we can reconsider. But right now warnings are about Russ> as frequent as Papal encyclicals, and I think partly as a Russ> result people have gotten really weird ideas about them. I mostly agree with you. And my comments were more directed at more serious membership actions than warnings. Although I think most of the time it'd be a good idea to check in with someone and ask for their side before issuing a warning too. I note that CT can issue warnings with a lot less process than DAM can. Russ> I guess the other possibility is that people really want Russ> warnings to be way more serious than any meaning I personally Russ> would ascribe to the word "warning" and are thinking of them Russ> as formal project censure or something akin to that. In that Russ> case, my argument is that we need a warning that's actually Russ> just a warning, and the thing we've got is much too strong and Russ> the real problem is that we don't have something lighter Russ> touch. We've got: 1) individual members acting. I think we don't get enough of this. I think that we also don't have a culture where it's sufficiently strongly expected that you at least consider carefully when fellow project members tell you that you're making things shitty for you. It's way too acceptable to say "well, nothing in the rules says I can't." 2) We've got CT warnings. I don't know what their internal procedure is now, but it seems like they don't require as much consensus as when I was involved. 3) We've got DAM warnings. Mostly, these are more serious than CT warnings, although I'm aware of situations where the stars lined up and it was easier for DAM to act than the CT even though either would have been okay. 4) We've got suspension-like things. 5) We've got expulsion-like things. And somewhere between 2 and 4 we've got mailing list bans, bts bans, IRC operator action an dthe like. I absolutely agree it would be great if we had more warnings (especially down at level 1 from individual developers) and we made it easier for warnings to be given. I also agree it may well be the case that DAM warnings have too much formality. --Sam