On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 05:38:13PM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: > Digby Tarvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 10:55:00AM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: > > > Digby Tarvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > For example, if the licensing restrictions on the downloadable firmware > > > > for > > > > a particular network adapter prevent it from being included on the > > > > install > > > > CD, then perhaps the install CD can be made to look for additional > > > > software > > > > on a USB pen that can be used by the installer to provide license > > > > restricted > > > > software. Or perhaps we can find a way to make it easier for people to > > > > avoid buying hardware that relies on license restricted software in the > > > > first place. > > > > > > IMHO, just as Joey Hess pointed out (in his missing post), there are > > > lots of efforts going into this direction. Just install msttcorefonts > > > and you'll know what I'm talking about. I just can't get easier than > > > that. You apt-get the package and the install scripts will download all > > > the font files and install them for you. You won't notice the > > > difference unless you watch apt's output. > > > > Ah yes, but the problem is - how do I apt-get the network adapter > > firmware mentioned in the example above when > > a) the network doesn't work because it needs the firmware, and > > b) Debian is not installed yet, because the installer needs the network... > > > > Again for those that missed it - I am entirely happy with the method for > > installing license restricted packages using alternate repositories > > after a Debian system has been successfully installed on the hardware... > > Sorry, I missed that, but see below. > > > My comments above (and the initial comments comparing Debian and Ubuntu) > > were specifically addressing ease of getting an initial working system > > installed. > > > > Or have I misunderstood what you are saying in some way? > > > > I suspect that there are more misunderstandings of what people are saying > > than actual disagreements in this thread... > > Exactly. I can now understand Joey Hess's frustration about his > message. Let me quote: > > [quote] > Some, like the ndiswrapper, are even in > Debian proper. It should be even easier to integrate such drivers into > the installer. For example all that needs doing for ndiswrapper is: > > 1) Someone doing the work to keep ndiswrapper kernel modules in Debian > up-to-date with the current version of the kernel in Debian, which is > not currently being done. > 2) Someone writing the necessary code to let the installer prompt or a > windows driver CD, pull the windows drivers off it and feed them to > ndiswrapper. > > (I'll tell you what: someone take care of #1, and I'll do #2.) > [end quote] > > Or are you talking about more complicated cases?
If that is the missing quote to which you were referring, then yes, it was more relevent than the later reference to apt-get'ing msttcorefonts. But I didn't interpret it as meaining 'there are lots of efforts going on in this direction'. It sounded to me like he was saying that lack of manpower was more of an impediment to easier installation than lack of technology or licencing issues. If you are reading it differently, then perhaps it needs clarification. I don't really see the reason for the frustration you are referring to. Ubuntu has some differences in priorities, so it is not unreasonable that in any objective comparison between it and Debian, there will be advantages and disadvantages on both sides. I think the originator of this thread was probably just interested in what peaples impressions of the differences are, rather than going into the philosophy behind each difference and long discussions about what can be done to address any area where Ubuntu seems to have an advantage. I'll grant that there may well be good reasons for the Debian installer not to be able to use my Wireless hardware when the Ubuntu installer managed it, but I think it would be a stretch to argue that that was not a disadvantage from the point of view of someone attempting to do an installation on hardware that uses it - especially someone who may not be experienced with Linux. That is not a criticism of Debian or a request for change. It is just information that may be useful for someone deciding between the two distributions if ease of installation is a priority. It just seems difficult to make such observations without evangelists getting defensive. Regards, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]