>> The only extra cost here would be the special video cards for each
>> seat but even they are commercial nowadays and making multi-seat work >> would be our job right? ~ > You're still missing the overall picture here. In your living room or > basement, or in a library or lab with a 30 foot long desk, this concept may > work, somewhat. ~ OK, lets go into the details and by the way I am a tech monkey myself (more into soft than hardware) but when I think about matters I also think about their business sense even if not in the details of it ~ > ... you end up spending more on in wall cabling, baluns, wall plates, and > other devices than if you put a complete PC in each room ~ Well, provided that computer was networked "wall cabling, baluns, wall plates" were present already. The long shielded monitor cables we are talking about would be thicker but that would be pretty much it. a 100 ft CAT5 cable on ebay ~ http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170386214077 ~ costs you $10. cablesdirect.com sales a 100 ft VGA cable for some $125 ~ http://www.cablesdirect.com/pricewatch.asp?txtPartNo=CC320B-100&txtSellingPrice=104.369 ~ yet you can find the same thing on ebay for less some $35 ~ http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330393097609 ~ so the difference would be $25 and again I expect for them to become much cheaper if such industries happen. Networking is already a mass market technology ~ > A cheap VGA + KVM balun kit runs about $130.50 USD: > http://www.rackmount-devices.com/019-4068.html ~ No need for it to be this way, each seat would have its own keyboard, mouse, monitor and data connection (through the monitor cable as they do right now) ~ > The cheapest USB balun I've found is $39.99 USD: > http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-11534&CAWELAID=293709399 ~ I think the best way to do multiseat is using the shielded monitor (being used nowadays to transfer video, audio and USB-based data) to also serve as a true USB hub (this is technically a non issue) ~ > Now to get sound to each seat ... ~ You already got sound through the monitor cable ~ > Don't forget, because we're having to use USB baluns we're limited to USB 1.1 > speeds of 12MB/s. ~ In my sense, not true. Notice that HP's LP2475w (very ;-)) high end monitor comes with 6 USB 2.0 connectors. SOme of which -may- be even used for the keyboard and mouse and it comes with an upstream USB 2.0 connection (which I think only works with pen drives (I would only be nicely surprised to learn that it reliably handles micro drives, too)) ~ http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13134_na/13134_na.pdf ~ tomshardware.com: lbrtchx "Which LCD displays can handle bus-powered 2.5" microdrives?" tomshardware.com: lbrtchx "Any experience with 4 head low profile/small form factor video cards?" ~ > This doesn't include a video card for each seat in the host ~ San, buddy, I think you may want to read up on/tinker a more bit with the whole multiseat idea. This is exactly what you don't need. I looked for the newegg link, but they don't offer you the number of heads in a card as a search option and on ebay (very good) Matrox 4-head video cards are being practically given out ~ > Our sum total is $130.50 + $39.99 + $12.99 + $7.99 + $32.99 = $224.46 USD. ~ That sum should be reconsidered ;-) ~ > This doesn't include the additional runs of in wall CAT5 to support USB (two > runs total). ~ In a friendly and technically honest way, what the f#ck are you taking about? I would like to understand you because I am not primarily a hardware guy. Why would you need "CAT5 to support USB"? ~ > You can't beat the marketplace, ever. You can only adapt what it offers to > best meet your needs. From a total ROI standpoint, a cheap PC at every desk > offers the best ROI. ~ ... ~ > The point being, the industry and corporate worlds have already done all of > the ROI, and concluded exactly the argument I'm making here. ~ I would like to read up on their business analysis (which honestly and as I have detailed here I find "questionable" from a technical point of view) Could you provide me/us with some studies/data on which these analysis are based? and as we well know the industry and corporate worlds milk moneys the way they (know how to) do. Technically speaking, it doesn't mean that things -must- be a certain way. besides I have worked for the industry and corporate worlds and these (in general and like politicians) aren't specially smart/honest/infallible people ~ > What happens when you blow up your X.org config after and upgrade? Or > anything else breaks after an upgrade? It affects all seats. With > individual PCs ... ~ As we technical people well know "things don't just break". You could keep your X.org config file (if that is what you mean) in a directory you mount read-only, protect with SELinux and check once in a while with smartmontools this would be in addition to safely keep your backups updated. You could even get a little more paranoid and use one of those SCSI drive which you can physically set as read only and ensure that the box is getting a stable power supply with no a little spikes and brown outs ... You could keep your X.org config file in a directory you mount read-only, protect with SELinux and check once in a while with smartmontools this would be in addition to safely keep your backups updated ~ > For each reason to do multi-user computing on one host there are 10 reasons > against it, cost and otherwise. ~ From which model? Do you mean the fat server/thin client one? This is not what multiseat is all about!!! Multiseat-managed environments haven't even been exploited yet! That is why so many people have a hard time even articulating the idea ~ I have also pointed out a number of technical issues that need to be resolved for multiseat technologies to be truly feasible ~ Thanks lbrtchx -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org