On Monday, February 17, 2014 07:18:40 PM Erwan David wrote: > Le 17/02/2014 19:02, y...@marupa.net a écrit : > > On Monday, February 17, 2014 12:00:23 PM y...@marupa.net wrote: > >> On Monday, February 17, 2014 06:02:47 PM Erwan David wrote: > >>> Le 17/02/2014 17:27, y...@marupa.net a écrit : > >>>> On Monday, February 17, 2014 04:13:11 PM Nick Boyce wrote: > >>>>> Sorry - this isn't strictly a Debian KDE question, but I figure > >>>>> somebody > >>>>> here will know something about this. > >>>>> > >>>>> In the latest KDE Commit-Digest (Issue 322, dated 12th.Jan.2014) [1] > >>>>> the > >>>>> > >>>>> following very terse and (to me) bizarre statement is made : > >>>>> "KDM has been removed ... KDM goes the way of the Dodo. > >>>>> > >>>>> It's exactly, to the day, 6 years ago that we released "KDE 4.0", > >>>>> while this is of course entirely unrelated to this commit, let's > >>>>> celebrate this anniversary with the deletion of kdm from > >>>>> kde-workspace." > >>>>> > >>>>> There is no explanation for this, no clarification about a replacement > >>>>> of some sort. A quick bit of googling for such terms as "KDM removal > >>>>> [why]" reveals nothing. Can anyone here enlighten me please ? > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm just trying to stay educated :) > >>>>> > >>>>> [1] http://commit-digest.org/issues/2014-01-12/ > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Nick > >>>> > >>>> http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/03/plasma-workspaces-2-coming-to-wayla > >>>> n > >>>> d-> > kdm-not-invited/ > >>>> > >>>> Conrad > >>> > >>> So it seems linux is becoming a new windows, loosing features after > >>> features to be only a cvlone for the dumb people who want windows > >>> without learning anything else. > >> > >> If you read the article, they give excellent reasons for it. KDM doesn't > >> suit the needs of KDE into the future. Instead they want to pick an > >> existing DM that will already have good Wayland support. Seems reasonable > >> to me. > >> > >>> What can we use to keep remote dispaly whch wayland does not ahve (and > >>> no a remote desktop is NOT a remote display of a program). > >> > >> When is the last time, realistically, you've actually used XDCMP or X > >> tunneling? Also, there's nothing stopping people from creating a > >> compositor > >> for Wayland that is network transparent. > >> > >> The problem with X's network transparency is that it's horribly > >> inefficient > >> (Slow even on broadband connections and takes a LOT of bandwidth for all > >> the protocols X11 uses.) and has very little use in today's Linux > >> desktops. You might not like it, but RDP/VNC are better alternatives. > >> > >> I personally just use SSH. I have no need for remote GUIs on Linux. > > I have. ssh +X remote display. I use it every day, and it simply *works* >
It works, but it's slow. I have a good network in my home and I've never seen it perform well even with compression. RDP takes less bandwidth than X forwarding, because it doesn't need to send all those X protocols over the network, just a bitmap display and input data. I've always found it faster. > being obliged tpo launch a full remote desktop is completley > inneficient, just ebecause of the volume of useless crap it obliges to > transfer. > > >>> People may choose to eat shit, the propblem is when they force it on > >>> other people. > >> > >> Then why choose to continue eating OLD shit? X11 is an ancient, cruft- > >> encumbered pile with "features" that aren't needed at all anymore on > >> today's desktop. Even the Xorg developers want to see the day they don't > >> work on Xorg. > >> Wayland isn't being forced on anybody, > > It is. You have every option to stay on Xorg even after Wayland is adopted. No one is dropping X11 support, but they are refocusing on Wayland because it's a better option than Xorg. It's not being forced on you. > > >> but it's generally agreed by users > >> > >> and developers alike it's a good move because it gets rid of stuff we > >> just > >> have no use for and takes advantage of actual modern features we could > >> actually use on a Linux desktop like KMS and compositing, two features > >> that > >> were effectively hacked in to Xorg. > > KMS and compoisiting are no use for me. They could have been id theyt > had not been flawed from the begining by putting them in the client. > > But I need remote display. I use it every day, and saying "is not > yuseful" will not make the need disapear. If the feature disapears it is > a REGRESSION. Nothing else > If an unneeded feature that causes unnecessary complexity and makes it harder and harder to maintain a codebase is removed, it's STREAMLINING, not a regression. You might not LIKE it, but that doesn't make it a regression. One of the actual stated purposes of Wayland is to completely DROP the majority of useless features no one needs in X11 but are still there purely for backwards compatibility. You know how much of the Xorg codebase is dedicated to running obsolete features? It's a mess. > >> It's like SysV Init, it's an old, tired, pain in the ass to maintain that > >> is going to be replaced but has people who want it to stay around > >> because change is bad. > > No just beacause the so called replacement DOES NOT REPLACE IT. Sure it does, with XWayland. And as I said, nothing stops anyone from writing a compositor that provides network transparency to Wayland. But for 99.9% of Linux users most of the features in X11 are useless and Xorg has become a real pain for its developers to maintain, that's why most of them are working on Wayland. Conrad -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/3499895.5EMXbR1sZx@twilight
