Hello.
Le 09.06.2014 10:16, Sven Joachim a écrit :
Installing systemd is kind of mandatory
these days (many packages need logind from it).
Just to precise that this particular point still might be avoided, with
some conditions.
Disclaimer 1: I do not say that systemd is not a good toolset, I
simply, for various reasons, do not want it on my system currently.
Disclaimer 2: it is not safe to do what I'll describe, do not do this
on production systems, only on your system, if and only if you are able
to tinker with your system.
So, about the how I managed to avoid it ( which is quite simple ):
_ first, you need to *not* use any monolithic DE, because they have a
lot of dependencies on DBus, which itself depends on systemd.
_ since lot of useful tools depends on either gstreamer or dconf, which
themselves depends on DBus and so, systemd, you need to build fake
packages for gstreamer and dconf, for each version your system needs.
You will still have various "libdbus" installed, and so, warnings from
your applications because they won't find the dbus daemon.
_ I had to freeze mpd at version 0.16.7-2+b1 and libpulse0 at version
4.0-6+b1, because more recent versions of Debian's packages does have
explicit systemd dependencies. A cleaner way to do the stuff would
probably be to recompile without those dependences ( since mpd is
portable, and tools depending on pulse0 -- aka pulseaudio -- are
portable also, blender for example ).
About the last point, sometimes I think that it would not be that
stupid to have some alternate packages, to avoid pulling useless
dependencies ( compiling without the stuff people know that they do not
use, pulseaudio, dbus, dconf, gstreamer, for examples. Personally, I do
not asks my browser or mail client to be able to disturb me with sound,
so why webkit have to depend on gstreamer? I thought that it's job was
to render web pages... html5? Humpf. )
Of course, they are useful for other people, and I understand that
Debian tries to target as most people as possible ( except that each
time I have read a reference to PA, it was to say that it does not work
correctly, and often, removing it seemed to solve the problem? ), but I
think that lot of desktops are trying to do just too many things, and in
my very personal opinion, are bloated ( my netbook is as fast as more
powerful computers which are using monolithic desktops, it sounds like a
clue for me ).
I do not know if this have a solution which could be integrated, and
maintained, into Debian, maintaining packages twice or more to get rid
of some dependencies would be a lot of work to benefit... who knows how
many people? Probably only a little ( because "nowadays, we've got
plenty of RAM and disk space". sigh ). Or maybe if it was possible to
move those hard "depend" into "recommend"? I do not know.
I do not think it helps a lot, but I wanted to show that it is possible
to not be in pure stable and still not have systemd. It just needs some
will to tinker. Staying in stable in not a correct solution for me,
there must be a correct middle somewhere.
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