Am Mittwoch, 17. September 2014, 17:16:57 schrieb T.J. Duchene: > I'm asking this on the user list not because I am trying to incite yet > another debate over the merits of Systemd, but because I am assuming that > the user list probably has the best chance of reaching out to the most > people to get an answer. > > I do not care which init is better for what. I do not care about the > Systemd versus SysV arguments. The decision has been made by the > Debian TC. So be it. > > My concern is the future of Debian for situations where the use of Systemd > is not acceptable. I'm curious to find out how Systemd as the default is > going to work on Jessie/Debian 8. When the words, "as default" is offered, > that assumes that there are supported alternatives available. > > What I want to know with complete surety is: > > a) If I will have to have systemd installed even if I do not want it.
I wanted to say no as I thought systemd-shim *and* cgmanager together can replace it, but according to merkaba:~> LANG=C apt-get purge systemd Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: amor analitza-common blinken cantor cantor-backend-kalgebra filelight kaccessible kalgebra kalgebra-common kalzium kalzium-data kanagram kbruch kcharselect kcolorchooser kde-config-cron kde-icons-mono kdeaccessibility kdeadmin kdeartwork kdeartwork-style kdeartwork-theme-window kdeartwork-wallpapers kdeedu kdeedu-kvtml-data kdegraphics kdegraphics-mobipocket kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer kdegraphics-thumbnailers kdemultimedia kdenetwork kdenetwork-filesharing kdetoys kdeutils kdf kgamma kgeography kgeography-data kgpg khangman kig kiten klettres klettres-data kmag kmousetool kmplot kolourpaint4 kppp krdc kremotecontrol krfb kruler ksaneplugin kscd kstars kstars-data ksystemlog kteatime ktimer ktouch ktouch-data kturtle ktux kuser kwordquiz libanalitza5abi1 libanalitzagui5abi1 libanalitzaplot5abi1 libkdeedu-data libkeduvocdocument4 libkiten4abi1 libntfs10 libpulsedsp libqmi-proxy libwebrtc-audio-processing-0 marble pairs parley parley-data plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba print-manager pulseaudio-utils qtdeclarative4-kqtquickcharts-1 rocs step Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED: colord* gvfs* gvfs-backends* gvfs-daemons* hplip* hplip-gui* kde-full* kde-plasma-desktop* kde-plasma-netbook* kde-standard* libpam-systemd* network-manager* packagekit* packagekit-tools* plasma-nm* plasma-widget-networkmanagement* policykit-1* policykit-1-gnome* polkit-kde-1* printer-driver-postscript-hp* systemd* udisks2* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 22 to remove and 218 not upgraded. After this operation, 36.5 MB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] ^C merkaba:~#130> it needs to be installed for *some of the KDE and GNOME stuff, this doesn´t work. This might be a problem with dependencies. I think the culprit here is libpam-systemd, yes, it is: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.17), libcap2 (>= 1:2.10), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), systemd (= 215-4), libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-6), dbus, systemd-sysv | systemd-shim (>= 7-2) So its the logind thing again I think. Maybe libpam-systemd could be made to work when installed stand alone, but I doubt it. While its only a few package removed… I bet it would make quite some trouble: No network manager, no udisks, no policy kit, I bet that would cripple current KDE and GNOME desktops a lot. > b) If completely purging Systemd and using an offered alternative break or > otherwise hamper the packaging system. > > If it is a case where systemd is required to be used, I might have to move > some of my work off of Debian to Gentoo or FreeBSD. I understood it that you will be free to go without systemd, but maybe the tech CTTE only stated that you can *use* another init. And well… my understanding was wishful thinking it seems. We have two ctte decisions: Therefore, the resolution reads: We exercise our power to decide in cases of overlapping jurisdiction (6.1.2) by asserting that the default init system for Linux architectures in jessie should be systemd. Should the project pass a General Resolution before the release of "jessie" asserting a "position statement about issues of the day" on init systems, that position replaces the outcome of this vote and is adopted by the Technical Committee as its own decision. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708#6734 The issue of init system support recently came to the Technical Committee's attention again.[1] For the record, the TC expects maintainers to continue to support the multiple available init systems in Debian. That includes merging reasonable contributions, and not reverting existing support without a compelling reason. [1] See #746715 for background. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746715#278 Well, none of these say anything about whether systemd needs to be installed. It says only that systemd is the default, and one can Debian *supports* the other as well. Maybe that can use a further clarification, but forcing onto people to implement a replacement of libpam-systemd might also not be wise. So it boils back to having an alternative replacement option. Maybe what the OpenBSD people do can be used later on. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/4569498.kLTrQaL4gR@merkaba
