Am Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014, 07:04:12 schrieb Jape Person: > On 10/21/2014 09:22 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: > > Don Armstrong wrote: > >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote: > >>> which is immediately followed by completely inaccurate information, > >>> including: > >>> > >>> ------ > >>> "With jessie, it will become /easier/ to choose the init system, because > >>> *neither init system is essential now*. Instead, there is an essential > >>> meta-package "init", which requires you to install one of systemd-sysv | > >>> sysvinit-core | upstart. In other words, you have more choice than ever > >>> before." > >> > >> This statement is actually correct; until this change it was not > >> possible to completely replace sysvinit with another init system without > >> running dpkg-divert commands to divert the init away. > > > > ok. > > > >>> When, in fact, there IS no way to prevent systemd from being installed > >>> during installation (except for upgrades). > >> > >> That preseeding doesn't do this is a bug, it's filed (#668001), and the > >> patch for it was just written on Friday the 17th. Because Debian is > >> going to freeze in less than three weeks, the maintainers are wary of > >> applying this patch this close to release without extensive testing. > >> > >> Furthermore, the effect of this patch is trivially obtained by using a > >> late_command to remove systemd-sysv and install sysvinit-core. > > > > except for the various reported issues with all the things aptitude > > wants to remove when you try this.... (I really hate unwinding highly > > entangled dependencies). > > > >> If you actually want to see this patch applied to the version of the > >> Debian installer that Jessie will release with, you should coordinate > >> with the nice people in #debian-boot to see what type of testing they > >> would want to see before they are willing to vet the patch. > > > > Good point - will see how receptive they are. > > > >>> Which leaves the only option being to install, with systemd, then follow > >>> the instructions in > >>> https://randomstring.org/blog/blog/2014/10/14/removing-systemd-from-a-d > >>> ebian-jessie-system/>>> > >>> |# apt-get install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils > >>> > >>> # apt-get purge systemd libpam-systemd systemd-sysv > >> > >> This is the wrong command to run. You want: > >> > >> aptitude install sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-; > >> > >> Removing libpam-systemd and systemd something depends on them isn't > >> useful; they don't determine what the init system is, after all. > > > > seems like we could use some definitive instructions on how to actually > > do this; we now have: > > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg00969.html > > and > > https://randomstring.org/blog/blog/2014/10/14/removing-systemd-from-a-debi > > an-jessie-system/ > > > > (where I copied the above instructions from) > > followed by: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg00998.html > > and now your comments above > > - plus the various bug reports about how to avoid mass uninstallations > > by aptitude (e.g., > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/10/msg00409.html) > > > > A distinct lack of clarity, given the TC resolution about expecting > > Jessie to support multiple init systems, but not actually having a > > clearly defined way to do anything except hack until one gets things to > > work. > > > > Miles Fidelman > > I haven't paid a lot of attention to threads concerning systemd because > of the (unfortunate, though occasionally entertaining) hyperbole and > innuendo employed by so many of the involved parties. I mostly despaired > of finding anything substantive in the various threads. > > But I'm glad you (and Don Armstrong) have been among the more reasonable > participants in the argument. > > I was wondering if either of you -- or anyone else -- has tried the > init-select package to see if it is actually able to avoid adverse > effects upon the installed software while allowing the user (presumably > someone with root privs) to select among init systems. That would be > nice, wouldn't it? > > I intend to look at it this weekend, if I can find some time for a > little project. I'm guessing that it's pretty basic, and maybe not meant > for use on systems with DEs, DMs, WMs, and lots of GUI user applications > installed on them. It it works for those, then the author truly deserves > congratulations. > > I hope everyone finds a way to get a system configuration s/he can live > with happily!
I did, as did a co-worker of mine. It appears to be basically working, but not always does what I would expect from it. So I reported some bug reports about it: init-select init-select adds sysvinit while systemd already there https://bugs.debian.org/762558 init-select: assumes systemd is default while its not https://bugs.debian.org/762578 http://bugs.debian.org/init-select shows one other bug regarding functionality: init-select: Offers not installed inits, confusing error messages, unhelpfull description https://bugs.debian.org/759031 Thats not much so far, I wonder whether many people test this. A co-worker of mine tested with openrc, but there was a problem on boot with openrc. It hung on some service and it wasn´t even possible to Ctrl-C it like often possible with sysvinit. I don´t remember the details tough. But he switched back. While openrc may be reliable and stable with Gentoo, I think the debian variant of it can actually use more testing. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1963516.6WWPqO3pgV@merkaba