Recent discussions in this group have raised as many questions for me as
they have answered, and raised doubts in my mind that the security of the
Linux kernel will ever be as good as I would like it to be. Is there a
fundamentally simple and 100% effective way to stop kernel exploits, or
will we be forever locked in a race between white hats and black hats? I
am still hoping kernel security will eventually be as good as the security
of a typical microprocessor instruction set. Throw a trillion bad inputs
at an x86 microprocessor, and you will never take over the "supervisor" mode.
Here are some recent discussions with question numbers in right margin.
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:50:17 +0100, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Dave wrote:
>> User: CallService DestroyFileSystem <victim's partition>
>> OS: Sorry, no such service.
>> User: CallService 227
>> OS: Sorry, no such service.
>> User: CallService 226
>> 226> OpenForWrite <victim's filename>
>> Sorry, you don't have permission to write to someone else's files.
>> 226> PokeMemory <some address>
>> Sorry, service 226 has no such command.
>> 226> SaveThisData <very long string>
>> Sorry, your data exceeds the size of my buffer.
>> 226>
>
>You've just described the essense of the unix system call API. The only
>difference is that since using a syscall each time to access memory
>would be very slow, syscalls are instead used to set up memory
regions, [1]
>which are protected by the processor's MMU and which processes cannot
>write outside of. cat /proc/self/maps
>
>Any API of this sort is still vulnerable to bugs in the validation of
>the data and commands though, such as the lack of bounds checking in the
>brk() hole. It's also vulnerable to bugs in the processor, such as
the [2]
>old Intel f00f bug.
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 03:00:15 +0100, Isaac To <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>> "Dave" == Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Dave> So how many daemons and kernel routines need both root access and
> Dave> input from a user process?
>
>Remember that *all* kernel routines are running in kernel-mode of the
>processor, i.e., having even higher permission than a normal root process.
>And most of the inputs taken by system calls are tainted with user
inputs. [3]
>Even worse, the kernel is performance critical. Adding all of these,
you'll [1]
>understand why it is so hard to make sure everything is correct. That's why
>some people advocate micro-kernels, to reduce the "source of power" to
a [4]
>very small code base that can be monitored in an easier way. But we are not
>at that point yet, so the race between white-hat and black-hat hackers
>*will* continue. In any case, even if we are in a micro-kernel like Hurd, a
>bug in the core servers (e.g., the authentication server, the filesystem
>server or the Unix API server) can easily give out arbitrary power to the
>user, so it is important to make sure core servers are bug-free in any case.
>The only question is "how many code are in the core servers".
Questions:
I'm raising these questions not to push my non-expert solutions to the
problems of OS security, but to stimulate discussion and gain some
understanding of the fundamental problems the kernel developers are
facing. I know from my own projects in electronic design that what seems
simple to the non-expert can be devilishly difficult.
[1] Are the parts of the kernel that need to be fast the same parts that
read input from a user process, or can we say that 95% of user inputs can
be passed through robust, standardized validation routines with no
performance degradation noticeable to the user? e.g. When the user process
says "Here's a pointer to my data.", should a kernel routine just start
stuffing a buffer, or call a common routine that at leasts checks the
length of the data to be stuffed. If "blind buffer stuffing" were limited
to just those routines where this transaction was time-critical, then those
few routines could get a lot of scrutiny for buffer overflows.
[2] It seems to me that a bounds check on any number from a user process
could be a fast "getnumber( num, min, max )" routine. Again, any kernel
routine that really couldn't live with this small delay, and had to process
un-validated user data, would get special scrutiny. I'm guessing two or
three routines, but I really don't know.
[3] I'm not sure what is meant by "tainted inputs" here. My guess is we
are talking about inputs that would pass simple validation checks (string
lengths, number ranges, membership in an allowed set) but still cause a
subtle problem later. It seems like that kind of problem would be very
unlikely, and almost impossible to exploit for anything other than causing
a crash. I'm comparing this situation to the comparable vulnerability with
microprocessor instruction sets, and we don't see that happening.
[4] Linus rejected the micro-kernel architecture in 1991, and it seems
*very* unlikely that the whole thing will be re-built at this late stage (
although if MS can do it with "foghorn", I suppose nothing is impossible
:>) What I'm thinking of is a much smaller overhaul, in which maybe 100
routines are modified to use the approved validation routines. Of those
100, there might be 10 high-priority and the others can be done later. On
routines which already do their own validation, the rework would be easy.
-- Dave
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- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be 100% Dave
- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be 100% Joey Hess
- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be 100% Tom
- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be 100% Paul E Condon
- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be ... Tom
- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it eve... David Palmer.
- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it... Ken Gilmour
- Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it eve... Paul E Condon