Hello, On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 09:06:34AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, September 24, 2021 05:31:47 PM The Wanderer wrote: > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=994899 - specifically. > > the first reply (comment 10).
[…] > I've read over message #5, and without being a Debian developer or a user of > Xen, aside from being a little longer / wordier than probably necessary, I > don't see anything so objectionable about it. [ I am not a member of the Debian Xen team and haven't contributed anything to this particular bug, but I have followed it all as I have an interest in the team's work. ] It's not outrageously objectionable, it's just not a very good bug report with some *slightly* objectionable elements and background. This whole thing is pretty mundane and has been blown out of all proportion by Chuck failing to handle reasonable advice given by someone trying to help in good faith. Also what would have remained with a very niche audience (people interested in Debian's Xen packages) has now been shown to a much wider audience as a consequence of Chuck bringing this to the attention of debian-user. To explain a bit more of the background, you'll see that Chuck referred to another bug in that bug log and a lot of other discussion took place there. Some of the things that are wrong with Chuck's bug are that Chuck criticised the Debian Xen team for including particular patches, and made some other factually incorrect statements, and wrote in a style as if as if the situation were fully known about by the Debian Xen team while valiant users like Chuck are crushed underfoot. In reality, the Debian Xen team didn't have good visibility of the issue and it's not yet been proven where exactly the bug lies. Even if it was shown to be in a patch that the team HAD taken on questionable basis, so what, we are all volunteers here, there is no need to berate people for their good faith efforts, we should expect bug reports to just focus on finding and fixing the bug not as someone's platform to deal out a blame narrative. Basically it's not a big deal and could have easily been turned around; I felt #10 was a fairly gentle request to focus on the facts and make progress but to say the criticism was not received well would be an understatement! For example, one of the "strongest" statements in #10 is "It's good that you filed this bug against the Debian Xen package […] way you went about it ... not so good." Chuck's response to that seems to have been to go about complaining in multiple unrelated locations of how he has been accused of being "not good". Note that he's morphed a statement of "your bug report was not done in a good way" into "someone in the Debian community told me I was not a good person; remove their slander or risk being sued". A dramatic misrepresentation of what actually happened. The rest of it is full of things like that. It could be partially understandable if #10 had simply said, "your bug report sucks," which believe me, I have seen and continue to see even from long standing Debian Developers. But Diederik did also take the time to give useful advice about HOW to move the situation forward, in fact that was the majority of the response. > I'm not sure which message Chuck wants deleted -- #5 or #10 (if either), but > I'm not sure he has "standing" to ask that #10 be deleted -- it seems he > would > have to contact the writer of message #10 and ask him to ask that message #10 > be deleted. I hope #10 is not deleted as it contains a lot of useful advice for anyone else who experiences this bug and wants to help resolve it. I'd also say that I can see Diederik is still working on narrowing down where the bug lies, so the work of Diederik and potentially others on the bug in question clearly isn't over, it can just now proceed without Chuck's further input. Though Chuck did clearly say that he wanted #10 deleted and apparently now says that he has agreement that it will be from someone official: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/09/msg00802.html I remain sceptical that this is an accurate report of whatever discussion that Chuck has had with the powers that be. :) Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting