On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 17:13:30 +0200, Sven wrote: > On 2023-06-08 15:41 +0100, James Addison wrote: > > > Does anyone have experience running Debian systems without using an > > initramfs? > > I did this in the distance past, some 15 years ago or so. Have long > abandoned that idea, though. > > > I'd be particularly keen to hear about laptop/desktop/server systems, > > because I think that a large motivating factor to use initramfs -- > > across many distributions -- was to provide a mechanism > > outside-the-compiled-kernel to load additional device driver modules, > > and I'd like to check that that motivation is still valid. > > s/device driver// > > Loading modules via an intramfs is crucial for a distro kernel, because > the only alternative would be to compile in support for dozens of > filesystems that users might want to use as their root filesystem.
Thanks for the response and correction. So, in order to load a chain of kernel modules (block I/O, logical disk management, filesystem, ...) that can read the system's 'true' root filesystem, we frequently (for example, after installation of some packages) rebuild a second, separate root filesystem (the initramfs), written according to a built-in kernel filesystem format, and then subsequently re-read (often from a separate block device) and re-evaluate the code from that filesystem at each system boot. (further corrections may be required) That was my understanding from around the same time you last loaded a system without an initramfs, and it puzzled me a bit, but I let it pass (there are only so many technical things that it's possible to care about, especially with full-time employment). Basically what I'm wondering about is whether there's some kind of future utopia where operating system filesystem images -- and the process of managing and booting from them -- could be made significantly simpler. Naturally a block device isn't a game cartridge - the former could contain many different operating systems, with the potential for dynamic resizing. But it feels like we haven't landed on the simplest way to approximate the straightforward (and I think generally fairly efficient and safe) experience of choosing and loading game cartridges with boot configuration. It's not a criticism of Debian per-se - we are following standards as opposed to setting them. I guess I'm curious whether it could be time to start reversing the polarity of some open source development experience to feed them back into simpler standards that provide what we want while discarding the cruft that doesn't -- based on practical and proven experience -- doesn't work so well.
