On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > OK. Last I heard, irc.debian.org #debian is a project > resource. Here is an example of how women are treated in Debian;
Ok at last we're at least moving into the realm of empirical data and I thank you for that but I must say you are engaging in a little rhetorical sleight of hand here over the words "in Debian" It has already been mentioned by others that very few Debian developers (arguably one good definition of what comprises Debian) ever go there. One could also note that a high proportion of IRC users in general are asshats and women get that sort of treatment almost everywhere. Which still makes it a problem but not a Debian specific one. Here are some other examples of how women are treated in Debian. In January 2003 (picked at random) there were 1601 posts to the debian-user mailing list. 55 of those (3.5%) were from female-sounding names as far as I can tell. No incidents of harrasment or condescencion occurred. Is this the true face of Debian? In the same month 2002 posts were made to debian-devel. 1 was by a woman. This month was notable for the "Jack Howarth is a fucking idiot" thread. Is this the true face of Debian? During the time period including this month Karolina Lindqvist made .debs for KDEs' CVS snapshots. This was done outside the official Debian framework altogether but they were very popular with Debian KDE users (including myself.) Is this the true face of Debian? I haven't kept any hard figures on it but in the four years I've been at the Debian booth at LinuxWorld in New York we've consistently had greater than 3.5% of the visitors be women (I would estimate about 20% but see caveat above.) None of them to my recollection have ever been snubbed or talked down too. Is this the true face of Debian? The fallacy in your use of Debian is that you assume there is a fixed idea of the boundaries of Debian and that everyone thinks it is at the same place as you. Lastly, since you mentioned it (and mentioned it, and mentioned it) In the month of November 2003 (I'd had a hard drive crash earlier that year that makes January data unavailable) I wrote or responded to 125 emails in relation to Debian matters. Of those 4 were from women (Curiously also 3.5% statistical fluke or trend?) Actually one woman but the thread included "aw, you're a dear" and "I'm delighted it was resolved so quickly." Pretty good for a neanderthal eh? You are welcome to do additional research along these lines. I for one conclude there is no problem that concerns me. If you on the other hand still do, don't wait for Debian, have at it! You can solve it right now by signing Helens or some other womans GPG key, and sponsoring them through the new maintainer process. Or by setting an example as a paragon of politeness and civility. Sure I won't lift a finger to help but I won't lift one to hinder either so I shouldn't bother you because it's just as much an instance of "Debian" solving problems as anything else. -- Jaldhar H. Vyas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
