On 3/22/24 16:13, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
Joost van Baal-Ilić <joostvb-deb...@mdcc.cx> wrote on 22/03/2024 at 09:54:35+0100:On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 06:51:48AM +0100, Joost van Baal-Ilić wrote: <snip>PS: I am eagerly awaiting a platform from Sruthi Chandran . Up to now there still is the old one at https://www.debian.org/vote/2021/platforms/srud .Oops: apparently I missed https://www.debian.org/vote/2024/platforms/srud . Sorry.And thanks for opening the rig: I have one question regarding Sruthi's platform. In it, it is stated that: " I would like to revisit our relationship with the existing trusted organisations, fund management procedure and if needed, explore the possibilities of having more TOs to reduce dependency on one or two. During DebConf23 organising, we had to face numerous fund distribution issues. Some of it definitely was specific to Indian scenario, but still I could think of a lot of improvement that can be done with respect to fund distribution through TOs." Being Debian France's treasurer since 2019 (dunno yet if treasurer will be my main endeavour should I be reelected this year, but I'll definitely continue to help as much as I can whatever my role becomes), I have two issues: 1. Many TOs create more liabilities: I have a certain memory of ffis eV, which disappeared with Debian assets. It's already hard to follow how things go under three TOs, so if we go to more, how do you expect to cope and avoid similar scenarii or worse?
I am also aware of such disappearance. Having TOs with just 1-2 people responsible is a warning sign. We should act before it is too late.
If we are going for more TOs, it would be ensured that there is a team of people and a good governing structure before committing. Regular review of the functioning of the TOs would be done and revoke agreements with TOs that shows signs of collapse.
About monitoring assets in TOs, regular reporting would be set as a requirement in the agreement. DPL or may be someone delegated (Treasurers?) would have to ensure the reporting is happening regularly.
These are some thoughts I have with my limited understanding of TOs and their relation with Debian. Once I have more clear picture, I might get some more ideas.
2. SPI is too centric in the TO ecosystem.
I completely agree!
True in my experience too. Debian France and Debian.ch had very short turn around times.After having spent two years in DF Treasurer, and more than 30 to 50% of my Debian dedicated time attending to it, I learnt that a) SPI takes 5% of anything it receives for Debian (Debian France does not do that and will never do that) and b) it own 90% of Debian assets while it's very slow to process much things and is reluctant to rebalance these. What's "funny" is that this situation led DebConf organizers to ask us to become the spine of DebConf registration financial aspects, as it seems despite being alone (not anymore since the end of 2022, <3 jipege) and not paid for it, I'm more reactive (and yet, some people could tell that sometimes I take far too much time, and I'd like to apologize for that) on these matters, and also keen on trying to find solutions when things go outside of the defined frame.
So, what seems important to me is rather this aspect. How did we get here? What do we intent do to about it? Incorporating Debian is a fine idea to me, and I'd still be happy to manage Debian assets, but at some point, the dyfunctional aspect, to me, is rather the way SPI evolved and the relation that resulted from this evolution.
How did we get here - I do not know. A lot of research would be needed to understand that or someone with more historic understanding could help here.
Having 90% of assets in a single TO itself is not a good thing. That is like putting all the eggs in one basket. I suggested more TOs mainly to redistribute these assets. I know this would be a herculean task, but I would like to at least get it started.
I do agree on your point of why things are dysfunctional. When things have evolved and things are not looking good, we should revisit the whole thing. This also is not going to be an easy task.
I'd like to hear both your feelings on this, and I'd really appreciate to get Jonathan's insights on this, too, as he did the DPL job for a long time and might have clues I don't have and failed to get from him (bc he's busy) over IRC chat. Thanks
OpenPGP_0xC7EA1BE1574DED5D.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key
OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature