[17:33] <Cyberspirit> yeah vm software can be a mongrel like that
[17:33] <Cyberspirit> try other software if you can
[17:34] <peetaur2> I've also used vbox a bunch with very few issues ...
what are you using?
[17:34] <RickyB98> when am i gonna choose whether to install desktop or not?
[17:36] <Cyberspirit> debian is pretty broken in that regard
[17:36] <Cyberspirit> i would follow a tutorial
[17:36] <mjt> broken in what regard?
[17:40] <Cyberspirit> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.html
[17:41] <Cyberspirit> mjt: no clear cut menu feature which will install
a very nice desktop on any debian install at the time of installation
without having
to have constant access to the internet to download every single little
package that is required to make it happen *<- my grief was relevant
when "mistakingly" downloading CD-1* *and assuming it contained a
desktop ready to go.*
[17:41] <themill> Cyberspirit: what does that actually mean?
[17:41] <Cyberspirit> mjt: i needed fast internet access, and when i
attempted a desktop install on debian it took 2 days vs 2 hours for ubuntu
[17:41] <themill> (and yes, you can install debian without an internet
connection)
[17:41] <Cyberspirit> mjt: i dont have fast internet access, not all of
the time anyway
[17:42] <Cyberspirit> even 10mbit dsl is too slow for a debian desktop
installation to complete in 1 day
[17:42] <mjt> heh. Install a Very Nice Desktop (tm)
[17:42] <themill> Cyberspirit: eh? that's nonsense.
[17:42] <Cyberspirit> no its not
[17:42] <Cyberspirit> it has some credence
[17:43] <themill> umm... it is. You can install debian without any
network connection at all.
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> themill you can install debian without internet
access yes but not a decent desktop like what ubuntu has on a single
650mb cd
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> thats what i mena
[17:43] <themill> Cyberspirit: not true.
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> mean
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> themill not easily?
[17:43] <themill> Cyberspirit: trivially.
[17:43] <formorer> wrong.
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> how then?
[17:44] <formorer> just download cd1 with gnome/kde/xfce *<- bad
advice**, cd1 contains no desktop as we find out later on.*
[17:44] <RickyB98> no, that was not about the drivers..
[17:44] <Cyberspirit> thats what i did
[17:44] <RickyB98> was about the EFI shizzem..
[17:44] <Cyberspirit> and i selected to install a desktop and it
downloaded for a day *<- because I was using CD-1*
[17:44] <RickyB98> but i don't remember precisely
[17:44] <formorer> Cyberspirit: then you didn't downloaded the right cd1
[17:44] <Cyberspirit> mmm
[17:44] <mjt> RickyB98: one other possibility is to install one or
another guest agent so, for example, cut-n-paste between host and vm works.
[17:44] <formorer> there are special cds for kde, gnome, xfce.
[17:44] <jmcnaught> Cyberspirit: i have 7mbit DSL and I can install
Debian in under an hour. Also if you're installing Debian all the time,
you can use
something like apt-cacher-ng on your network to speed things up.
[17:44] <themill> Cyberspirit: if you had downloaded the right CD1 then
there would be nothing for the installer to download.
[17:45] <Cyberspirit> please point me to this 'special cd'
[17:45] <Cyberspirit> i'd like to install deb on my laptop here
[17:46] <themill> Cyberspirit: debian.org/CD
[17:47] <Cyberspirit> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.5.0/i386/iso-cd/
[17:47] <Cyberspirit> ok now point me to the special cd in this list
[17:47] <Cyberspirit> now that i've finally gotten through to the right area
[17:47] <themill> Cyberspirit: what do you mean "special cd"
[17:48] <Cyberspirit> well if i choose CD-1.iso it wont have the desktop
on it will it? so i'll have to choose one which comes with a desktop
[17:48] <Cyberspirit> which is the one i've been choosing for the last
10 years btw
[17:48] <Cyberspirit> CD-1 is the one i've always grabbed
[17:48] <themill> Cyberspirit: which desktop are you actually asking about?
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> thats the thing
[17:49] <mjt> heh. "Nice Desktop(tm)" :)
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> i'm a windows user, i dont keep up on the latest
thing, whats the best one?
[17:49] <themill> Cyberspirit: the one you like.
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> kde, lxde, xfce
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> is xfce even a desktop? thats the question i ask
[17:49] <jelly-home> Cyberspirit: it is.
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> suprised me, xfce sounded like a strange and
obscure package name
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> ok i'll get kde
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> seeing as it reminds me of the desktop that i used
10 years ago
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> on mandrake
[17:51] <Cyberspirit> thats what i mean when debian hasnt got a refined
desktop install process
[17:51] <themill> Cyberspirit: you're making it more complicated than it is.
[17:51] <Cyberspirit> all of that bullshitting around has been replaced
in ubuntu with a single link on the ubuntu website
[17:52] <Cyberspirit> themill: newbiness and the associated anxiety that
comes with the installation of a new OS is exactly what will put people
off from
trying it out, look at me i've been using linux for 10 years and for the
last 2 years have considered abandoning debian because i didn't even
know debian had
a desktop distribution available
[17:52] <Cyberspirit> but now i know that it does
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> i ASSUMED in my right mind that the kde and other
ones as listed there were for specific purposes, like for example
development of the
kde desktop or something
[17:53] <themill> Cyberspirit: a new user wouldn't have made a pile of
incorrect assumptions about debian... or would have asked google.
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> yes they wouldve
[17:53] <themill> does it say "kde development"?
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> no it doesnt
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> *it doesnt say kde desktop either*
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> so whats your point?
[17:53] <formorer> debian *doesn't *have a desktop distribution.
[17:54] <b0ngz> *yes it does*
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> and thats what i kept on hearing for the last 2 years
[17:54] <themill> Cyberspirit: did you look at the CD FAQ at the point
where you had questions about CDs?
[17:54] <b0ngz> debian does
[17:54] <formorer> no.
[17:54] <b0ngz> yes it does, yes it does
[17:54] <formorer> no.
[17:54] <formorer> b0ngz: tell me where.
[17:54] <b0ngz> debian-desktop-x64
[17:54] <b0ngz> .iso
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> debian doesnt have a desktop distribution so
therefore i shouldnt download this strange and mysterious kde iso
[17:54] <b0ngz> bro
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> from the mirror
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> anyway you guys got my point
[17:54] <peetaur2> I'm with the yes men on this one. I installed a
debian and ended up with ugly gnome, which sounds like desktop to me.
[17:54] <formorer> this are the same packages available as in debian
[17:54] <themill> and did you look at the CD FAQ at the point where you
had questions about CDs? *<- which contains NO information in regards to
"desktop" anywhere, which I found out later on.*
[17:54] <formorer> they are just bundled on one cd.
[17:54] <AlexPortable> themill: the reason i want vpn is because of this
reason
[17:55] * shingouz leans back and grabs the popcorn
[17:55] * b0ngz chuckles
[17:55] <formorer> this is not what one would call a distribution
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> themill: theres a cd faq?
[17:55] <themill> Cyberspirit: and there's even a link to it from the
pages that describe the CDs.
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/#stable
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> i dont see it anywhere *<- honest*
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> just some links to howtos *<- this is where the
faq should be linked to*
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> i'm a *nervous linux installer*, im not going to
know what a FAQ is or why i should care
[17:56] <themill> Cyberspirit: so you wouldn't even try reading them
when you have questions. Good job.*<- pissing users off for no reason,
great job.* *I have read everything he has said so far...*
[17:56] <Cyberspirit> here it is
[17:56] <Cyberspirit> https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> at the very bottom of the page
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> in a tiny teeny little link
[17:57] <themill> Cyberspirit: and at the top. And on the sides.
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> took me a while
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> lol
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> you really expect people to find and click on that
*< - a tiny little 3 character piece of text /outside/ of the main page
but in its borders.*
[17:57] <themill> Cyberspirit: well perhaps more reading of that and
less hitting <enter> would help.*<- trolling*
[17:57] * Cyberspirit facepalms
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> no i'm good with enter
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> me and enter are good friends
[17:57] <petn-randall> Cyberspirit: We assume people can read, and know
how to navigate web pages. That's also our user target.
[17:57] -ChanServ- You have been quieted on #debian by themill
[17:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +q *!*@*censored**<- ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY OPS!*
[17:57] <formorer> Cyberspirit: instead of complaining, sending patches
would be a lot of better.*<- I ask myself where do i send these
patches?* *I'm willing to be genuinely helpful.*
[17:58] <themill> Cyberspirit: really, please just focus on solving real
problems rather than annoying everyone.*<- annoying this single user it
seems and then him chucking a whinge when it doesn't go his way**.*
*very monarchical thinking here.*
Session Close: Thu Jun 05 17:58:24 2014
Session Start: Thu Jun 05 18:41:01 2014
Session Ident: #debian
[18:41] * Now talking in #debian
[18:41] * Topic is 'openssl: /msg dpkg dsa2896 | wheezy released: /msg
dpkg squeeze->wheezy | current point release: /msg dpkg 7.5 | NO FLOOD:
/msg dpkg
paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic |
testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net)'
[18:41] * Set by SynrG!~synrg@debian/developer/synrg on Sun Apr 27 11:00:31
[18:41] -ChanServ- [#debian] Welcome to #Debian. This is a discussion
channel; if you have a question about Debian GNU/Linux, ask and we will
try our best to
answer it. Newcomers should read the channel's guidelines by typing
"/msg dpkg guidelines". Please do not paste in the channel; use #flood
instead. Thank
you.
[18:41] #debian url is http://www.debian.org
[18:41] <Cyberspirit> themill: i took a look through that faq, nowhere
does it mention any desktop environment
[18:41] <Cyberspirit> themill: might want to keep that in mind next time
you vow me to read the faq
[18:47] <Cyberspirit> I also don't see where I can contribute or edit
that page
[18:48] <anddam> thanks, I didn't know openssh provided SFTP
[18:51] <Cyberspirit> To report a problem with the web site, e-mail
debian-www@lists.debian.org.
[18:51] <Cyberspirit> there we go
[18:51] <Cyberspirit> thanks for nothing i guess
Session Close: Thu Jun 05 18:51:07 2014
*PULL YOUR FUCKING HEADS IN!*