> On 11 May 2023, at 9:58, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
>
> >> On Wed, 10 May 2023 16:48:12 -0500
> >> Mike Karels <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 10 May 2023, at 10:13, Cy Schubert wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In message <[email protected]>, Mitchell
> >>>> Horne w
> >>>> rites:
> >>>>> On 5/10/23 11:19, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
> >>>>>>> The branch main has been updated by mhorne:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> URL:
> >>>>>>> https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=36db6b04962a01ff7b21592def02d
> >>>>> 4c570dac939
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> commit 36db6b04962a01ff7b21592def02d4c570dac939
> >>>>>>> Author: Mitchell Horne <[email protected]>
> >>>>>>> AuthorDate: 2023-05-10 12:53:56 +0000
> >>>>>>> Commit: Mitchell Horne <[email protected]>
> >>>>>>> CommitDate: 2023-05-10 13:25:17 +0000
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> hier(7): document /home/ and /usr/home/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Reviewed by: imp
> >>>>>>> MFC after: 1 week
> >>>>>>> Sponsored by: The FreeBSD Foundation
> >>>>>>> Differential Revision: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D40002
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>> share/man/man7/hier.7 | 10 ++++++++++
> >>>>>>> 1 file changed, 10 insertions(+)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> diff --git a/share/man/man7/hier.7 b/share/man/man7/hier.7
> >>>>>>> index ff11289436a1..b6759dd6e65b 100644
> >>>>>>> --- a/share/man/man7/hier.7
> >>>>>>> +++ b/share/man/man7/hier.7
> >>>>>>> @@ -90,6 +90,10 @@ file descriptor files;
> >>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>> .Xr \&fd 4
> >>>>>>> .El
> >>>>>>> +.It Pa /home/
> >>>>>>> +user HOME directories.
> >>>>>>> +This is a symlink to
> >>>>>>> +.Pa /usr/home/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> /usr is "contains the majority of user utilities and applications"
> >>>>>> it should not contain home directories.
> >>>>>>> I do not know when this move to usr came about it was traditionally
> >>>>> /home.
> >>>>>> I do not know why /usr/home even exists, it is not needed by
> >>>>>> anything I am aware of. If we have a compatible link it
> >>>>>> should be, usr/home -> ../home and /home should be the
> >>>>>> directory.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I agree that /usr/home is strange, and is unique (?) to FreeBSD.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The oldest commit in the output of `git log --grep '/usr/home'` is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> commit f2400d465896a8e4f6fdc57eba840cf49b25bbbd
> >>>>> Author: David Nugent <[email protected]>
> >>>>> Date: Fri Jan 3 04:42:18 1997 +0000
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Implemented /home -> /usr/home symlink kludge.
> >>>>> If home basedir would be created in the root partition, create
> >>>>> it under /usr instead, and symlink /basedir -> /usr/basedir.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Notes:
> >>>>> svn path=/head/; revision=21242
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So it has been this way for 26 years at least. I do not know what to say
> >>>>> about whether /usr "should" contain it, but it does.
> >>>>
> >>>> Usually history matters. I can understand not changing it. On the flip
> >>>> side, I cut my UNIX teeth on SunOS 4 and Solaris where /home was /home --
> >>>> albeit automounted from /export/home on localhost or some NFS server. In
> >>>> the Red Hat land at $JOB, /home is its own partition (actually an LVM
> >>>> volume). In both cases /home is not in /usr because end-users can fill
> >>>> /usr. This can be problematic operationally because it's yet another
> >>>> headache to deal with should someone fill the filesystem. Filling /usr is
> >>>> more serious than filling /home.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a point of interest, when I installed my first FreeBSD many moons ago
> >>>> I
> >>>> used the Solaris standard of /export/home, using amd (now automount) to
> >>>> serve my /home. I'm not advocating we do this, it's overkill, but /home
> >>>> should not live in /usr. It's a potential headache for any sysadmin.
> >>>>
> >>>> With ZFS the solution is easy. With UFS based systems there are a lot of
> >>>> other factors that go into how we install the "default" from the get-go.
> >>>
> >
> > First off, thank you Mike for looking at this closer. Add me to any reviews
> > you might creat.
> >
> >>> The situation is a fair mess. It took me a little while to figure out
> >>> that
> >>> the kludge referenced above is in the pw(8) command, which is used as the
> >>> backend to adduser(8). Neither /home nor /usr/home is in the base
> >>> package.
> >>> adduser defaults to /home/user, and creates the parent directory (e.g.
> >>> /home)
> >>> if it does not exist, but if there is no internal slash, pw moves the
> >>> parent
> >>> to /usr. In this case, it makes the symlink from root. zfs is
> >>> different,
> >>> in that it includes a usr/home dataset already (created by bsdinstall).
I am proposing we fix this. More below.
> >>> In this case, creating a user with /home/user causes the symlink to be
> >>> added
> >>> as a side effect.
> >>>
> >>> I?m sure the kludge was originally done when root and /usr were separate
> >>> file systems by default, root was small, and there was no /home by
> >>> default.
> >>> However, we now default to a single large file system (with datasets, in
> >>> the zfs case).
> >>>
> >>> All of this really is a horrible kludge, and it is a house of cards. I'm
> >>> amazed that it doesn't break more often. I'm tempted to remove the kludge
> >>> and change the zfs setup to create a home dataset rather than usr/home.
> >
> > Or make it a menu option(s):
> > if (zfs) "Create a user home dataset?" (default yes)
> > if (ufs) "Create a user home directory?" (default yes)
>
> Are you suggesting that bsdinstall should do this? For ufs, there is no
> need.
Yes I am suggesting that bsdinstall should have a knob to turn
on (by default) and off the creation of a "home dataset/directory"
as you well need that if you choose to add users during a bsdinstall
run, or you may not want a /home at all (currently not possible) as you
have other mechanisms for dealing with it.
The need for this is just as valid for ufs as it is for zfs.
>
> > "User home location: /home" (This is default)
>
> Are you proposing that the default for pw should be set at this point?
>From all I read the default for pw is already, and should remain /home.
Man page bears that out. It has no mention of any symlink or usr/home.
> That doesn?t seem necessary, and I don?t know if it would work from
> bsdinstall.
No, this has nothing to do with pw directly, this is simply the path
of the dataset(zfs)/directory(ufs) that bsdinstall should create IFF
you sayd yes to the create question. At present this is hardcoded
into bsdinstall as:
/usr/home
/home -> /usr/home
I am advocating that this should all be controllable from menu.
>
> > As far as I am concerned the symlink can just die....
>
> I agree, but that requires a change to pw. It creates the symlink on the
> first account creation using /home.
I am missing something here, pw creates the symlink yuk.
As far as I was aware the only think that created a symlink
/home -> /usr/home was bsdinstall.
>
> >>> However, if zfs users explicitly configure a home directory under
> >>> /usr/home,
> >>> this would end up in the usr dataset. An alternative would be to remove
> >>> the
> >>> code from pw to create the parent directory entirely (which seems
> >>> sensible),
> >>> and create a /home directory for ufs installs. I don't know how well
> >>> known
> >>> it is that adduser/pw will create parent directories for home directories
> >>> though. This cleanup would change the default location for home
> >>> directories
> >>> to /home, which makes more sense. It would require documentation, e.g. in
> >>> the release notes. The changes would only affect new installations, not
> >>> upgrades.
> >>>
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Adding home would require a change to BSD.root.dist, since it's not
> >> currently in there. Only usr is present.
> >
> > It should *not* be in the etc/mtree/BSD.*.dist files at all.
> > And it is not on my 13.1R system. It would not need to be
> > in BSD.root.dist either, this is a *post distribution* created
> > directory/dataset.
>
> I?m curious why you think this. But if pw retains the ability to create
> the parent directory for the user directory (and I now think it should),
> there is no need for a /home by default.
Because there is no need for /home in a base distribution until
you add a user, and that is a site specific change. What in
the base system *needs* /home?
> >> IMHO changing pw would be a reasonable approach.
> >
> > I am mixed on this.... it more or less does the right
> > thing, and if a user specifies /tmp/foolishidea/home/$USER
> > that is on them. No one said all users homes must be
> > in the same location.
>
> Except for moving parent directories with a single component under /usr,
> and creating a symlink for them...
>
> My current plan is to change pw not to move things under /usr, change the
> zfs setup to use a home dataset rather than usr/home (corresponding to the
> pw default), and then change the various man pages that refer to /usr/home.
> Does that seem reasonable?
Yes, then the knobs can easily be added, or scripted install should just
work to effect the knobs.
> Mike
--
Rod Grimes [email protected]
