eyome, Fabrice is right, I was talking about the Web experience, not the desktop browser UI. It should be quite obvious.
Like wise, I will definitely not looking for a tab bar on a phone UI, just the analogy concept allow people to multi-task. Tim On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Fabrice Desré <[email protected]> wrote: > Nothing forces us to put the back button in the top-left corner of the > screen. The mockups I've seen put it in the bottom left, which should be > closer to your fingers. > > And overall I'm not sure what users are expecting. I'm not sure they > care about the tabbed web model so much (tabs scale poorly). But they > need a way to efficiently access new content and to get back to things > they have opened, recently or not so recently. > > Fabrice > > On 10/21/2015 08:34 AM, eyome wrote: > > I would completely agree with you for a desktop app, but on smartphone, > > it's not the same thing: with a Nexus 5-like, I need to change the > > position of my phone in my hand to reach the top corner left on my phone > > (I am a right hand user). > > > > User story: In the public transport like the bus, I need to take with > > these changes of positions to not drop down my phone (my fear...)-> > > sorry for the story... > > > > For a right end user, use a top corner left is logical, yes, but not > > comfortable. > > > > SailfishOS (Jolla) has good idea for these issues, please, you should > > try it. > > > > Tim Guan-tin Chien a écrit : > >> I am for anything that is closer to the Web experience as we know it. > >> I have been saying that since the beginning of the project -- "market > >> expectations" and other reasons unknown to me force us to mock an app > >> experience instead. > >> > >> For the past 10+ years the Web experiences means the following: > >> > >> 0. URLs > >> 1. Linear history navigable with chrome > >> 2. Tabs, and easily switching between tabs > >> > >> To this day I don't really understand why we are not built on this > >> reliable and familiar origin. > >> > >> On 2010. Mozilla Labs published a heat map showed 95% of the Firefox > >> users clicks the Back button [a]. 95% means it ranks all the way at > >> the top. > >> > >> [a] https://heatmap.mozillalabs.com/ > >> > >> So yeah, if there is a place for back button we should definitely put > >> one for the purpose of (1) above. > >> > >> By focus on the 3 points mentioned, and do it right, we can proudly > >> say whatever Web App works well on the Web will work well on Firefox > >> OS. That's what user expects on a browser, *regardless of* and UI the > >> sites offers. > >> > >> On a technical note, and as a user, I don't really care how app are > >> engineered as long as it works with that back button. Single page web > >> app with hashes works with it. URL writes with history API could do > >> the magic too. It's better to have pre-rendering and other magical > >> stuff claimed by NGA but it will fit into the same navigation model > >> anyway. > >> > >> Obviously screen estate is valuable -- I have faith in our UX team to > >> get it right. However I personally thinks (2) is equally important as > >> well so I won't re-map edge swipe back to history navigation, as > >> Przemak suggests, and keep it as gestures to continue to switching > >> between "Tabs" (AppWindow in Gaia System). > >> > >> User interface is a conversation between the machine and the user, > >> let's start with some familiar warm welcome and build on top of that. > >> > >> > >> Tim > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:01 PM, Przemek Abratowski > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> As Wilson mentioned currently in Alopex we're trying out a back > >> button in the soft home key area that we're using as the bottom > >> bar of the browser chrome. The back button would be used to > >> navigate history, and fade away when the user is at the start of > >> his browsing history. Also we can use swiping left and right from > >> the screens edge to navigate between history. > >> > >> We're also looking at solution for full page games or web apps. > >> We're trying to make the experience feel like the user is always > >> in a browser as much as possible so easy access to the chrome from > >> anywhere is something we're focusing on, and at the same time > >> we're not trying to take up unnecessary permanent screen space. > >> > >> I'll attach some very early mock ups of the browser chrome. Please > >> note that the top URL bar would hide on scroll or sometimes right > >> after loading a web app, and that the bottom bar is the soft home > >> key area. > >> > >> This solution is currently focused at devices with a soft home > >> key, for devices with a physical home button we'd remove the home > >> button from the bottom bar and let that chrome also hide when > needed. > >> > >> > >> Don't be alarmed at the dark browser chrome in this pic, we're > >> still iterating on both dark and white versions. > >> > >> Przemek > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Mihai Barbat <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> The problem with swipe from the middle is that it's not a > >> back! Right now it switches to another running application. > >> Ah, and it's also slow, at least on my Flame. > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:17 PM, eyome <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> to honest, I am against to add a back button to the home > >> bar: I would prefer a swippe from the middle to the right > >> of the screen. > >> > >> I feel this elegant and really comfortable, please, > >> considere it. It avoids to add another button on the home > >> bar (and I could still using "home bar plus" add-on and > >> his "kill app" button...). > >> > >> > >> Sam Giles a écrit : > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> It seems wrong to have to build navigation into web apps > >>> when the platform has more than adequate support for it. > >>> As an app developer I dislike the idea of having to > >>> provide my own mechanism to 'go back' to the previous > >>> view. As a user it can be frustrating, each app > >>> implementing navigation in a subtly different way. > >>> > >>> These ideas would definitely be good to try out in Alopex. > >>> > >>> Sam > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Wilson Page > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm in favour of this model so long as it doesn't > >>> intrude on app developer real-estate with extra > >>> chrome. From the early visuals we've seen from Alopex > >>> it appeared that the back button would live in the > >>> footer bar with the home button, which seems like a > >>> good solution :) > >>> > >>> It might be nice to have this button appear only when > >>> there is history state to navigate back to. Or > >>> perhaps when there is no history the button does > >>> something else, like closing the app/tab? > >>> > >>> *W I L S O N P A G E* > >>> > >>> Front-end Developer > >>> Firefox OS (Gaia) > >>> London Office > >>> > >>> Twitter: @wilsonpage > >>> IRC: wilsonpage > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Henretty > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Gaia folk, > >>> > >>> In the early days of Firefox OS, we built all of > >>> Gaia as single-page apps. I wasn't around then > >>> but I imagine we did this for a number of > >>> reasons, with performance and responsiveness at > >>> the top of the list. As part of this, we > >>> encouraged app developers to implement navigation > >>> controls in their own apps and not rely on > >>> browser chrome functionality like "back" and > >>> "refresh". This totally made sense in the context > >>> of a single-page app, especially when you take > >>> into account that native apps on iOS and Android > >>> (albeit to a lesser extent) have to implement > >>> their own navigation as well. > >>> > >>> But with more recent technologies like Service > >>> Workers, better caching APIs, pre-rendering, etc. > >>> (basically all the stuff that NGA takes advantage > >>> of), I think the web is shifting away from > >>> single-page apps as a performance workaround. And > >>> let's not forget that single-page apps often > >>> negate one of the webs biggest strengths: deep > >>> linking. > >>> > >>> So I write this email today as sort of an opinion > >>> poll. Personally, I think it's time we bring back > >>> the browser chrome into Firefox OS apps. I think > >>> we should encourage developers to write URL-based > >>> apps, to not be afraid of browser chrome > >>> navigation, and therefore to build their Firefox > >>> OS app as a standard website + some experimental > >>> (or proprietary :/) APIs. > >>> > >>> There has been some discussion around this with > >>> the work we are doing on Pinning the Web and > >>> Alopex. But I want to hear from the greater FxOS > >>> community too, especially those with app > >>> development experience. What do you think, should > >>> we bring the "back" button back? > >>> > >>> -Michael > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dev-fxos mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-fxos > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dev-fxos mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-fxos > >>> > >>> > >> Envoyé depuis Firefox OS > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dev-fxos mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-fxos > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dev-fxos mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-fxos > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dev-fxos mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-fxos > >> > >> > > Sent Using Firefox OS > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dev-fxos mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-fxos > > > > > -- > Fabrice Desré > b2g team > Mozilla Corporation >
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