All,
I've posted this draft section 7.4 to the Mozilla wiki -
https://wiki.mozilla.org/CA/Root_CA_Lifecycles and updated a draft of it in
my Github repository -
https://github.com/BenWilson-Mozilla/pkipolicy/commit/061692360626814f857168a7e0e6f36f84264d68.
It will become part of version 2.9 of the Mozilla Root Store Policy. (As
soon as we wrap up and post version 2.8.1, I will start discussions on
version 2.9.)
Ben

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:18 PM Roman Fischer <roman.fisc...@swisssign.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
>
>
> Yes, this is also for SwissSign a very good suggestion!
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Roman
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy Rowley <jeremy.row...@digicert.com>
> *Sent:* Dienstag, 18. Oktober 2022 22:24
> *To:* Ben Wilson <bwil...@mozilla.com>; dev-security-policy@mozilla.org
> *Cc:* Roman Fischer <roman.fisc...@swisssign.com>
> *Subject:* RE: Proposed Updates to MRSP to Address Root CA Life Cycles
>
>
>
> Thanks Ben! This solves my headaches with S/MIME.
>
>
>
> *From:* dev-security-policy@mozilla.org <dev-security-policy@mozilla.org> *On
> Behalf Of *Ben Wilson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2022 1:57 PM
> *To:* dev-security-policy@mozilla.org
> *Cc:* Jeremy Rowley <jeremy.row...@digicert.com>; Roman Fischer <
> roman.fisc...@swisssign.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Proposed Updates to MRSP to Address Root CA Life Cycles
>
>
>
> All,
>
> Based on my understanding of Jeremy's email, here is another version.
>
> *New Section 7.4 “Root CA Life Cycles”*
>
> For a root CA certificate trusted for server authentication, Mozilla will
> remove the websites trust bit when the CA key material is more than 15
> years old. For a root CA certificate trusted for secure email, Mozilla will
> set the "Distrust for S/MIME After Date" for the CA certificate to 18
> years from the CA key material generation date. The CA key material
> generation date SHALL be determined by reference to the auditor-witnessed
> key generation ceremony report. If the CA operator cannot provide the key
> generation ceremony report for a root CA certificate created before July 1,
> 2012, then Mozilla will use the “Valid From” date in the root CA
> certificate to establish the key material generation date. For transition
> purposes, root CA certificates in the Mozilla root store will be distrusted
> according to the following schedule:
>
> Key Material Created
>
> Removal of Websites Trust Bit
>
> Distrust for S/MIME After Date
>
> Before 2006
>
> April 15, 2025
>
> April 15, 2028
>
> 2006-2007
>
> April 15, 2026
>
> April 15, 2029
>
> 2008-2009
>
> April 15, 2027
>
> April 15, 2030
>
> 2010-2011
>
> April 15, 2028
>
> April 15, 2031
>
> 2012- April 14, 2014
>
> April 15, 2029
>
> April 15, 2032
>
> April 15, 2014 - present
>
> 15 years from creation
>
> 18 years from creation
>
> This schedule is subject to change if underlying algorithms become more
> susceptible to cryptanalytic attack or if other circumstances arise that
> make this schedule obsolete.
>
> CA operators MUST apply to Mozilla for inclusion of their next generation
> root certificate at least 2 years before the applicable distrust date.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 3:56 PM Ben Wilson <bwil...@mozilla.com> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> Are there any additional comments on Jeremy's proposal for S/MIME
> certificates? If we do go this route, then I am thinking that we may need
> to make this even more clear than what is proposed in the italicized
> language. Modifying the table might also help make things more clear. Any
> thoughts or suggestions?
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 8:51 AM Roman Fischer <roman.fisc...@swisssign.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Ben,
>
>
>
> SwissSign supports Jeremy’s suggestion. Due to the longer life-time of
> S/MIME certificates, we would welcome a later distrust for S/MIME than for
> TLS.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
> Roman
>
>
>
> *From:* 'Jeremy Rowley' via dev-security-policy@mozilla.org <
> dev-security-policy@mozilla.org>
> *Sent:* Mittwoch, 21. September 2022 17:40
> *To:* Ben Wilson <bwil...@mozilla.com>; Li-Chun CHEN <
> lcchen.ci...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* dev-security-policy@mozilla.org; Filippo Valsorda <
> fili...@ml.filippo.io>; jespe...@gmail.com <jesperm...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* RE: Proposed Updates to MRSP to Address Root CA Life Cycles
>
>
>
> Hey Ben,
>
>
>
> s/MIME certificates are issued for 3 years and often put on hardware. This
> means that s/MIME certificates issued today will be distrusted before their
> expiration if signed by one of the impacted roots. The logic behind
> applying the removal to sMIME is also weird as the BRs for s/MIME don’t
> exist (yet). This means the concern over s/MIME older roots and their
> operation under the standards is quite different than TLS. I think we
> should either: 1) extend the timeline for s/MIME so its 3 years from
> whenever the last issuance date is or 2) apply a notBefore distrust to
> sMIME on the dates listed below. There’s also some confusion on what
> distrust means because Mozilla has two different ways to distrust a root –
> removal or notBefore. How about something like this:
>
>
> Root CA certificates included in the Mozilla root store will be distrusted
> when their CA key material is over 15 years old. The date of CA key
> material generation SHALL be determined by reference to the auditor’s key
> generation ceremony report. For key material generated before July 1, 2012,
> Mozilla will assume that the key material was generated on the “Valid From”
> date in the root CA certificate. *Under this section and on the date
> listed in this section, Mozilla will remove the root’s TLS bit and set a
> notBefore rule for s/MIME certs. Mozilla will remove the roots completely
> from the root store 3 years after the notBefore date. *For transition
> purposes, root CA certificates in the Mozilla root store will be distrusted
> according to the following schedule:
>
> Key Material Created
>
> Distrust Date
>
> Before January 1, 2006
>
> April 15, 2025
>
> 2006-2007
>
> April 15, 2026
>
> 2008-2009
>
> April 15, 2027
>
> 2010-2011
>
> April 15, 2028
>
> 2012- April 14, 2014
>
> April 15, 2029
>
> April 15, 2014 - present
>
> 15 years from creation
>
> This schedule is subject to change if the underlying algorithms become
> more susceptible to cryptanalytic attack.
>
> CA operators MUST apply to Mozilla for inclusion of their next generation
> root certificate at least 2 years before the Distrust Date above.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> *From:* dev-security-policy@mozilla.org <dev-security-policy@mozilla.org> *On
> Behalf Of *Ben Wilson
> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2022 11:44 AM
> *To:* Li-Chun CHEN <lcchen.ci...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* dev-security-policy@mozilla.org; Filippo Valsorda <
> fili...@ml.filippo.io>; jespe...@gmail.com <jesperm...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Proposed Updates to MRSP to Address Root CA Life Cycles
>
>
>
> Here is another option (deleting the other MRSP language previously
> proposed):
>
> *Section 7.4 “Root CA Life Cycles”*
>
> Root CA certificates included in the Mozilla root store will be distrusted
> when their CA key material is over 15 years old. The date of CA key
> material generation SHALL be determined by reference to the auditor’s key
> generation ceremony report. For key material generated before July 1, 2012,
> Mozilla will assume that the key material was generated on the “Valid From”
> date in the root CA certificate. For transition purposes, root CA
> certificates in the Mozilla root store will be distrusted according to the
> following schedule:
>
> Key Material Created
>
> Distrust Date
>
> Before January 1, 2006
>
> April 15, 2025
>
> 2006-2007
>
> April 15, 2026
>
> 2008-2009
>
> April 15, 2027
>
> 2010-2011
>
> April 15, 2028
>
> 2012- April 14, 2014
>
> April 15, 2029
>
> April 15, 2014 - present
>
> 15 years from creation
>
> This schedule is subject to change if the underlying algorithms become
> more susceptible to cryptanalytic attack.
>
> CA operators MUST apply to Mozilla for inclusion of their next generation
> root certificate at least 2 years before the Distrust Date above.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 6:11 AM Li-Chun CHEN <lcchen.ci...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, Fillppo,
>
>
>
> About the details of the Android client compatibility and your comment
> "why is cross-signing not an option". You could see Hongkong Post CA's case
> in mdsp as
> https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/a2vWmLIKZy4
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fa%2Fmozilla.org%2Fg%2Fdev-security-policy%2Fc%2Fa2vWmLIKZy4&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZrxXndeXdR8tYNqns%2BDAh3xs9gCXhbNZZcHqq8UK0q0%3D&reserved=0>
> and Hongkong Post CA's announcement in
> https://www.ecert.gov.hk/news/press/95.html
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecert.gov.hk%2Fnews%2Fpress%2F95.html&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QLgc6PRqYKbcIUCW1Qp1xwscoNpjQblkStDQm7IDDjA%3D&reserved=0>.
> Please also search "Android Fragmentation" key word in internet.
>
>
>
> I quoat some information from Hongkong Post CA as below :
>
> “Our several major subscribers’ of public services have recently
> completed research among mobile device users in Hong Kong. It revealed that
> usage of the old Android devices version 10 or below (not yet pre-loaded
> with Root CA3) could only drop to below 5% for the Hong Kong mobile users
> at least after 6 years, taking into account that low-income families would
> slowly replace their old mobile devices.”
>
> Note that " Root CA3 ("Hongkong Post Root CA 3" ) has been included in
> Mozilla and Microsoft in May 2019, Google in September 2020, and Apple in
> October 2021. Therefore, subscribers are no longer required to install the
> cross-certificate to applications such as web servers for being trusted by
> common web browsers, when the web browser users use any of the following
> web browsers on supported platforms ("Supported Web Browser"): -
>
> Google Chrome and other supported web browsers on Android 11 or above
>
> Microsoft Edge and other supported web browsers on Windows 10 or above
>
> Apple Safari and other supported web browsers on iOS 15 or above, iPadOS
> 15 or above, macOS 12 or above.
>
> Mozilla Firefox version 68 or above on all supported platforms."
>
>
>
> "Since 2019, all TLS server certificates have been rolled-over to a new
> Hongkong Post Root CA3 Certificate ("Root CA3") to replace the old Root CA1
> which is due for expiry in May 2023. We have also implemented a
> cross-certificate signed by the old Root CA1, valid from Aug 2017 to May
> 2023 in enabling end-users of Hong Kong who are using old version of
> desktop/mobile devices pre-loaded with the old Root CA1 only to access
> local websites using TLS server certificates issued under Root CA3. "
>
>
>
> “A substantial number of Hong Kong residents using Android version 10 or
> below, not yet pre-loaded with Root CA3. Therefore, we plan to model the
> previous practice of "Let's Encrypt
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fletsencrypt.org%2F2020%2F12%2F21%2Fextending-android-compatibility.html&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kYvzvJ8VasAAN3SEE7ga8LoFEXYKblslCkUgr0uC3rQ%3D&reserved=0>"
> in managing similar expiry of its Root Certificate in 2021 in order to
> minimize the impact of accessibility of local websites governed under Root
> CA3 by old Android device users arising from the expiry of Root CA1. “
>
> "In order to minimize the impact of accessibility of local websites using
> our TLS server certificates by Hong Kong mobile device users to a
> manageable level, we consider issuing the new cross-certificate signed by
> Root CA1 extended by a longer transition period of 6 years or more (instead
> of 3 years to May 2026). Taking into account that during the transition
> period, the security strength would not be affected along our existing
> certificate chain of trust. We have re-confirmed with our auditor to ensure
> our revised plan with no compliance concerns."
>
>
>
> Note that Hong Kong Post CA's Root CA1 is RSA 2048 with SHA-1. Their new
> cross-sign certificate RSA 4096 with SHA-256 i:
> https://crt.sh/?id=7224214828
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D7224214828&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eBUWb1pKtbJnUlrWpaY4RHiNqaqbVB0zfW8%2BnKhBPjE%3D&reserved=0>.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks to Mr. Man Ho of Hongkong Post Certification Authority, Certizen .
>
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
>
>
> Li-Chun Chen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Filippo Valsorda 在 2022年9月8日 星期四上午8:42:03 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
>
> 2022-09-08 00:11 GMT+02:00 Ben Wilson <bwi...@mozilla.com>:
>
> Thanks. As noted in your comments, the majority of affected root CAs have
> indicated that they do not believe that they will have a problem with the
> proposed deprecation schedule, but I am still considering modifying the
> wording/timeframes for the four or so CAs who might be affected. For
> example, one CA operator has since noted that their key is 4096-bit RSA,
> that they can provide audit documentation of their key generation, and that
> the transition to another root may be difficult for users of Android and
> Apple devices.
>
>
>
> Thank you for the details. Key generation audits are nice, but without
> ongoing audits from that moment to the present, I believe they don't
> mitigate the security concerns around what that key might have signed over
> its lifetime.
>
>
>
> Could the details of the Android and Apple client compatibility issues be
> shared on-list, ideally by the affected CAs? It feels like an opportunity
> for the ecosystem to learn something if nothing else.
>
>
>
> So, I will take a closer look at these four Root CAs as I continue to look
> to see how the wording or schedule of the original proposal can be tweaked.
>
>
>
> Off-hand, here are the Root Certificates from those affected CA operators
> who I recall have previously expressed concern, one way or another:
>
>
>
> GlobalSign - https://crt.sh/?id=88
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D88&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oqaG3SdxPrxccU4rSkFf0wuNoJsv4JDJJ0Q9KvhYHMU%3D&reserved=0>
>
> DigiCert - https://crt.sh/?id=76
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D76&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HKKs0ZGTrqY0kgmta2FaFCaU682LjuVqpga77N%2FLd7w%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Chunghwa Telecom - https://crt.sh/?id=17183
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D17183&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YWcgTEkTgadJMY6jLjMwZt7dafUaGp%2Fen7UKEYbA1Eg%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Sectigo - https://crt.sh/?id=331986
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D331986&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xxgXDlQou0fNsYgAgDKRwFKsoVyKzOYXyRdA6zxkh7c%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Others who I believe do not have concerns with the current proposal are:
>
>
>
> SECOM - https://crt.sh/?id=144
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D144&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NI%2FND0UoK7jVotsztpdhIUVeDgNJmhW%2Fk03awiplnKw%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Hong Kong Post - https://crt.sh/?id=4854
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D4854&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FCA%2FB%2BsTrpnXZstj3QL9%2Fz2jX2fwvLJ%2BsMoyy4Um8RI%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Entrust - https://crt.sh/?id=55
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D55&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433141475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aZa7BDljdpbdklvrhKpfds2SODZoZdmB33IYIVD%2BK%2B8%3D&reserved=0>
>
> GoDaddy - https://crt.sh/?id=39
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D39&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433297680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tG88v91nAzZzsMn1VfLUVGWvUBGnlxgLQqC%2F8U4TDVI%3D&reserved=0>
> and https://crt.sh/?id=27
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D27&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433297680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SXlwYVisg4Nw1CKj1gNnsqlLWG4B8VQgenzJGzKm4TY%3D&reserved=0>
>
> SecureTrust/Viking Cloud - https://crt.sh/?id=95564
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcrt.sh%2F%3Fid%3D95564&data=05%7C01%7Croman.fischer%40swisssign.com%7C8a7ebc586c2449b834d208dab146b04e%7C21322582607f404c82d950ddb1eca5c9%7C1%7C0%7C638017214433297680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zPuvVe9lZMHHoZp34t9zVHyJEMDCuL8KSN2rZrSNQ%2Fs%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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