Hi Anders
Thank you very much, this really help alot:) We won't let end-users use
that tool, instead, we put it in a installer, and let the installer do the
dirty work.
btw, Since this certutil.exe is downloaded from microsoft.com, I'm a
little worried about whether this certutil.exe is the same certutil.exe in
NSS?
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundg...@telia.com
> wrote:
> On 2010-07-21 17:57, Amax Guan wrote:
> > Hi Anders
> >
> > Thanks for your information. Do you know where I can download a
> windows binary of certutil.exe?
>
> Hi Amax,
> Try this SDK which is supposed to contain certutil.exe as well:
>
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=860ee43a-a843-462f-abb5-ff88ea5896f6&displaylang=en
>
> But I can't imagine end-users dealing with such a horrible tool.
>
> This is for *cryptopgraphers* only.
>
> Making a Chinese Firefox distribution should be a more workable solution.
>
> Anders
>
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Anders Rundgren <
> anders.rundg...@telia.com <mailto:anders.rundg...@telia.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On 2010-07-21 16:26, Amax Guan wrote:
> > > Thank you very much, it's very helpful. I put most of the replies
> inline.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Gervase Markham
> > <g...@mozilla.org<mailto:
> g...@mozilla.org> <mailto:g...@mozilla.org <mailto:g...@mozilla.org>>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 20/07/10 04:23, Amax Guan wrote:
> > >
> > > I've got a problem help China Construction Bank(CCB for
> short)
> > > support Firefox. CCB has its own CA root, used to issue
> certificate to
> > > his users, and they issued some server cert using this
> cert.
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you know why they cannot buy a cert from a trusted CA, like
> every other business (including most banks)?
> > >
> > >
> > > I think basically it's because they have too much Cert to issue
> (One for each user), it cost too much money, and they do not want anyone
> else to know how many users they have, and their names,
> > > including the CA.
> >
> > Absolutely. It would be extremely inconvenient also-
> >
> > >Kai mentioned that it's OK to use a untrusted CA signed user
> certificate in Firefox to sign, But they are not only using this cert in
> signing, they also use the cert for two-way SSL,
> > > and they periodically renew the cert. But if you generate a user
> Certificate that's issued by a untrusted CA, there will be an alert popup.
> >
> > If that's really true I would call it a bug. I guess it is renewal
> that really is the
> > problem? <keygen> doesn't support renewals.
> >
> > Few if any end-user banks certificates have their root in browsers.
> >
> > > The server cert I don't know why, but I guess maybe it's because
> they already have this CA system, they just want to save some money and
> time? I mean not every cert on their website is signed by
> > > themselves, they have verisign certificates on most of their
> webpages, but on some specific server, they use cert issued by their own CA.
> The server using their own CA is in the certificate
> > generation
> > > process, I wonder is it related to two-way SSL or something?
> > >
> > > And btw, every bank in China has its own CA System, to generate
> user certificate.
> >
> > Yes, and that is how it should be, SSL certificates is another
> (hopefully unrelated) topic.
> >
> > Anyway, Chinese banks will some day get a solution in Firefox that
> actually
> > addresses consumers (rather than cryptographers), but it will take
> some
> > time to get it out of the door:
> >
> > http://webpki.org/auth-token-4-the-cloud.html
> >
> > Since US banks and Government Agencies do not use certificates for
> consumers
> > and citizens this is primarily a European/Asian issue and we cannot
> expect to
> > get any support from Mozilla except maybe a "Good luck" or so :-)
> >
> > Regards
> > Anders Rundgren
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > And they
> > > want to put their CA Root certificate into Firefox, so that
> there will
> > > be no alert popup in the certificate generate process and
> no security
> > > alert when users access their website. And here comes the
> questions
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you be more specific about the errors that people who bank
> with CCB encounter in "the certificate generate process"?
> > >
> > >
> > > They use keygen tag to generate the user certificate (They need to
> renew the certificate periodically), and the form is submitted to a cert
> page with contentType=x509/certificate or something like
> > > that. Firefox will automatically save the certificate to where it's
> corresponding key is, and after that popup an alert saying the cert is
> download successfully. AND THEN, if the CA of the cert is
> > > untrusted, Firefox will pop up another alert talking about "Cannot
> import the certificate, the issuer of the cert is unknown, the cert is
> invalid or ...."
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. Right now, we are trying to use certutil.exe in
> their USB-Key
> > > driver installer to do that. However, one of my colleague
> seems to have
> > > some problem build the certutil.exe in visual studio 2005.
> And
> > > sometimes, it fails to run on some machine. I tried to find
> a stable
> > > version of that tool through google, but I failed. Is there
> any stable
> > > version of certutil I can download, that will work on most
> version of
> > > windows? Or why is it so hard to build, is there some way
> to make it better?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know the answer to this particular question.
> > >
> > >
> > > Unlucky for me:( Because according to several emails I made
> yesterday, this way seems to be the most doable and effective way.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Since the certutil.exe solution did not went very
> well, we think
> > > maybe we could embed their CA cert in our Firefox China
> Edition.
> > > According to my knowledge, at least half of the population
> in China are
> > > CCB bank users, and cannot access online bank is our major
> problem in
> > > China, so we think this make sense. We can make an addon to
> do that, but
> > > it occurred to us that an addon is so open, that anyone
> that knows where
> > > it is can change the cert, or do something else dangerous.
> So, is there
> > > a better way to put the cert in? Maybe through a binary
> XPCOM is better?
> > >
> > >
> > > The Mozilla project does not issue copies of Firefox that trust
> new CAs without those CAs going through the official process, as described
> below. Even when we do go through the process, people
> > > still object - see the CNNIC case. There is absolutely no
> chance of any official Firefox being released which trusts a cert belonging
> to another Chinese company, or any company, without it going
> > > through the trust checking process. Many of our users in China,
> as well as those elsewhere, would not like it.
> > >
> > > CCB may, of course, create their own addon to add the cert
> (assuming that's technically possible). But all their customers would need
> to install it individually. It is no more or less
> > dangerous to
> > > use an addon than any other method.
> > >
> > > What is the current procedure for people who bank with CCB who
> use IE, Safari or Chrome? Do those browsers trust the CCB certificate?
> > >
> > >
> > > CCB only works in IE right now, and online banking sure is our
> top priority in China now. In IE,there is a concept of trust zone, and in
> their installer, they put themselves in the trust
> > zone, and
> > > put their CA cert in the windows Cert DB through CSP.
> > > Btw: They are talking with MS to put their CA root in windows.
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. Is it possible to put the bank's CA cert in
> firefox's default
> > > cert db? So that we don't need to worry about security
> problems...
> > >
> > >
> > > It is certainly possible. There is a process for this:
> > > https://wiki.mozilla.org/CA:How_to_apply
> > > However, it can take many months.
> > >
> > > Got it.
> > >
> > >
> > > I hope that's helpful :-)
> > >
> > > It sure is, thank you very much for your help
> > >
> > >
> > > Gerv
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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