Generally, seems like a good idea two questions:

1.  I didn't think we generally specify JSON serialization formats for
types?
2.  I assume if there is a high enough demand we can always have a
different variant that uses IANA strings?
3.  Will dictionary encoding of the time zone component be allowed (for
common cases I would expect one could save 1 byte but this is perhaps over
optimization).

Thanks,
Micah

On Tue, Nov 4, 2025 at 5:25 AM Weston Pace <[email protected]> wrote:

> +1
>
> This has always felt like a missing option and hopefully its presence will
> actually make the intent of the other timestamp types clearer.
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2025 at 2:04 PM serramatutu <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > We (me and @felipecrv) would like to propose a new canonical extension
> > type: "TimestampWithOffset". Before we start an official voting, we would
> > like to discuss our proposal in this thread.
> >
> > A draft of the format documentation change can be found at [1]. A copy of
> > its text is attached under the FORMAT section.
> > A draft Go implementation can be found at [2].
> > A draft Rust implementation can be found at [3].
> >
> >
> > THE PROBLEM
> > ---
> > "TIMESTAMP WITH TIME ZONE" is a standard ANSI SQL type that associates a
> > timezone offset to each timestamp entry in a database. Many database
> > systems support this data type (some use aliases). Some examples are
> > Snowflake [4], Trino [5], Oracle DB [6] and MS SQL Server [7].
> >
> >
> > The current set of Arrow types can only keep one timezone that applies to
> > the entire column. This limits the expressiveness of data when
> interacting
> > with such SQL databases. Consumer systems currently need to either
> convert
> > from source "(timestamp, timezone_offset)" to a normalized arrow UTC
> > timestamp and throw away the original time zone information, or use
> bespoke
> > formats if the time zone needs to be preserved. For example, the ADBC
> > implementation for Snowflake currently implements the former [8].
> >
> > Dropping the time zone has correctness implications for some
> applications.
> > Consider a global business which performs monthly reporting. Each
> business
> > unit is located in a different continent, and processes a number of
> orders
> > every month. Each order is placed in an "orders" fact table, where
> > "ordered_at" is a "TIMESTAMP WITH TIME ZONE" column. Now, assume there is
> > an order that was placed at 23:00 (11pm) in California (UTC-8), on the
> 31st
> > of January. A system that simply casts this timestamp to UTC and drops
> the
> > time zone will think this order was placed in February, which is an
> > incorrect assumption given the business' reporting needs of associating
> > orders to the business unit where it was processed. There is no way to
> > fetch the original time zone of the order, and using the local client
> time
> > zone does not help either. And so one cannot generate a correct report
> > without workarounds to preserve the time zone.
> >
> > We think Arrow should have a canonical way representation for this.
> >
> >
> > THE PROPOSAL
> > ---
> > We propose "TimestampWithOffset" to be a new canonical extension type
> that
> > stores timestamps as "struct(timestamp=timestamp[time_unit=any,
> > timezone=utc], offset_minutes=int16)", such that timestamps can have a
> > per-row timezone offset instead of having one global timezone attached to
> > the entire column.
> >
> >
> > CONSIDERATIONS AND LIMITATIONS
> > ---
> > 1. Why use a 16-bit integer offset in minutes?
> > In ANSI SQL, the time zone information is defined in terms of an
> > "INTERVAL" offset ranging from "INTERVAL - '12:59' HOUR TO MINUTE" to
> > "INTERVAL + '13:00' HOUR TO MINUTE". Since "MINUTE" is the smallest
> > granularity with which you can represent a time zone offset, and the
> > maximum minutes in the offset is 13*60=780, we believe it makes sense for
> > the offset to be stored as a 16-bit integer in minutes. Nonetheless,
> > 16-bits is large enough to fit a much wider offset
> >
> > It is important to point out that some systems such as MS SQL Server do
> > implement data types that can represent offsets with sub-minute
> > granularity. We believe representing sub-minute granularity is out of
> scope
> > for this proposal given that no current or past time zone standards have
> > ever specified sub-minute offsets [9], and that is what we're trying to
> > solve for. Furthermore, representing the offset in seconds rather than
> > minutes would mean the maximum offset is 13*60*60=46800, which is greater
> > than the maximum positive integer an int16 can represent (32768), and
> thus
> > the offset type would need to be wider (int32).
> >
> >
> > 2. This type can still be "lossy"
> > Systems like Trino and Oracle DB store the time zone information as an
> > IANA time zone name, not as an "HOUR TO MINUTE" interval as specified by
> > the ANSI SQL standard. This means the source system (or the arrow
> > compatibility layer, such as ADBC) needs to cast time zone strings to the
> > offset in minutes. In other words, the integer offset is calculated at
> the
> > source, not at the consumer.
> >
> > This means that the consumer cannot render the original IANA time zone
> > string, and needs to use something like "UTC-03:00" instead of
> > "America/Sao_Paulo", for example. It's impossible for the consumer to
> > lookup the IANA time zone with only the offset, as that is a one-to-many
> > mapping, and so the type is lossy with respect to the original IANA time
> > zone.
> >
> > There is an upside to this, which is reducing consumer complexity. It
> only
> > needs to add an offset in minutes to the UTC date to get the original
> date
> > in its time zone, without any access to the IANA time zone database nor
> > performing complicated conversions, like reasoning about variable-offset
> > time zones (e.g daylight savings).
> >
> > 3. JSON representation
> > We propose that the de/serialization to/from JSON must use RFC3339
> strings
> > [10], without loss of information. RFC3339 is a widely accepted format
> > across programming languages and databases, and we argue encoding
> > "TimestampWithOffset" with it would make JSON integration with external
> > non-Arrow systems easier. It enables JSON consumers to decode to their
> own
> > timezone-aware representation of timestamps (like Go's "time.Time" or
> > JavaScript's "Date") by leveraging existing RFC3339 de/encoders without
> > having to implement wrapper boilerplate just for Arrow.
> >
> >
> > RELEVANT LINKS
> > ---
> > [1] Format specification pull request.
> > https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/48002
> > [2] Golang implementation draft.
> > https://github.com/apache/arrow-go/pull/558
> > [3] Rust implementation draft.
> > https://github.com/apache/arrow-rs/pull/8743
> > [4] Snowflake's TIMESTAMP_TZ.
> >
> https://docs.snowflake.com/en/sql-reference/data-types-datetime#timestamp-ltz-timestamp-ntz-timestamp-tz
> > [5] Trino's TIMESTAMP WITH TIME ZONE.
> >
> https://trino.io/docs/current/language/types.html#timestamp-p-with-time-zone
> > [6] Oracle's TIMESTAMP WITH TIME ZONE.
> >
> https://docs.oracle.com/en/database/oracle/oracle-database/19/nlspg/datetime-data-types-and-time-zone-support.html
> > [7] MS SQL Server's DATETIMEOFFSET.
> >
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/t-sql/data-types/datetimeoffset-transact-sql?view=sql-server-ver17
> > [8] ADBC for Snowflake converts to UTC and drops time zone.
> >
> https://github.com/apache/arrow-adbc/blob/a67ab5a509676feaec8e24dba479d4de8dc083e2/go/adbc/driver/snowflake/record_reader.go#L228
> > [9] Current time zones in effect.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tz_database_time_zones
> > [10] RFC3339 representation of timezone-aware timestamps.
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3339
> >
> >
> > FORMAT
> > ---
> > Timestamp With Offset
> > =============
> > This type represents a timestamp column that stores potentially different
> > timezone offsets per value. The timestamp is stored in UTC alongside the
> > original timezone offset in minutes.
> >
> > * Extension name: ``arrow.timestamp_with_offset``.
> >
> > * The storage type of the extension is a ``Struct`` with 2 fields, in
> > order:
> >
> >   * ``timestamp``: a non-nullable ``Timestamp(time_unit, "UTC")``, where
> > ``time_unit`` is any Arrow ``TimeUnit`` (s, ms, us or ns).
> >
> >   * ``offset_minutes``: a non-nullable signed 16-bit integer (``Int16``)
> > representing the offset in minutes from the UTC timezone. Negative
> offsets
> > represent time zones west of UTC, while positive offsets represent east.
> > Offsets range from -779 (-12:59) to +780 (+13:00).
> >
> > * Extension type parameters:
> >
> >   * ``time_unit``: the time-unit of each of the stored UTC timestamps.
> >
> > * Description of the serialization:
> >
> >   Extension metadata is an empty string.
> >
> >   When de/serializing to/from JSON, this type must be represented as an
> > RFC3339 string, respecting the ``TimeUnit`` precision and time zone
> offset
> > without loss of information. For example ``2025-01-01T00:00:00Z``
> > represents January 1st 2025 in UTC with second precision, and
> > ``2025-01-01T00:00:00.000000001-07:00`` represents one nanosecond after
> > January 1st 2025 in UTC-07.
> >
>

Reply via email to