>
> I do think it can be useful to specify a custom "top-level" environment.
> We should probably make it easy to use customized expansion services.


I'm fine with adding startup argument(s) in the expansion service for
configuring the "top-level" environment. Since which expansion service to
use is already configurable in external transforms, it solves the problem
just as well as my original proposal. And if a particular expansion service
wants to do something more complicated, it can have its own logic to handle
that.


> Ah, that clarifies things. Would it be possible/preferable to pass the
> credentials as parameters to the transform itself?


Maybe. But it's generally useful to be able to stage files to SDK
containers, so it's something we should consider making into a general
feature, perhaps based on the artifact API.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:52 PM Robert Bradshaw <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Kyle Weaver <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>  This gets into the distinction of customizing what kind of environment
>>> one wants to have (which could be generally applicable) vs. an absolute
>>> designation of a particular environment (e.g. a docker image).
>>
>>
>> For common environment modifications, resource hints are a great idea,
>> since it's much easier to set an annotation than to build and set a custom
>> container. The limitation of this approach is we can't handle every
>> possible modification a user might want to make to their environment.
>> Custom containers give the user ultimate control over the environment, so
>> we forfeit a lot of flexibility if we don't provide enough options to use
>> them.
>>
>> Note that what we're running into in part is that "pipeline options" are
>>> the wrong level of granularity for specifying characteristics of an
>>> environment, as there is not a single environment to parameterize (or,
>>> possibly, even one per language).
>>
>>
>> Yes, this is the crux of the problem. We already expose an
>> environment_config as a pipeline option, so we basically have three choices:
>> 1. Deprecate pipeline-level environment options altogether.
>> 2. Find a way to generalize environment options.
>> 3. Keep and document the status quo (ie users can use custom containers,
>> but at most only one per language).
>>
>
> I do think it can be useful to specify a custom "top-level" environment.
> We should probably make it easy to use customized expansion services.
>
>
>> The caller should not need any visibility into the environment(s) that an
>>> expansion service uses, which is an implementation detail that the
>>> expansion service is free to change at any time. (In fact, whether it is
>>> (partially or fully) implemented as an external transform is an
>>> implementation detail that the end user should not need to care about or
>>> depend on.)
>>
>>
>> I personally think pattern matching and substitution by runners (maybe
>>> more sophisticated than regexp on container names) is a reasonable way to
>>> approach customization of environments.
>>
>>
>> Aren't these ideas contradictory? Pattern matching requires knowledge in
>> advance of which patterns to match. We'd need to know at least some
>> information about the environment the expansion service is expected to use
>> in order to replace it.
>>
>
> The pattern matching is not such that I want to replace the environment
> for this particular transform, but that /if/ I see a Java environment of a
> certain type /then/ I want to run it in this way.
>
>
>> For example, suppose I construct a pipeline that uses both Python and
>>> Java transforms. (I could do this from Go, Java, or Python). If I want to
>>> run this locally (e.g. on the Python FnAPI runner), I would prefer that the
>>> python bits be run in-process but would have to shell out (maybe via
>>> docker, maybe something cheaper) for the java bits. On the other hand, if I
>>> want to run this same pipeline (ideally, the same model proto, such that we
>>> don't have runner-dependent construction) on Flink, I might want the java
>>> bits to be inlined and the Python bits to be in a separate process. On
>>> Dataflow, both would live in containers. To do this, the Python runner
>>> would say "hey, I know that Python environment" and just swap it out for
>>> in-process, and vice versa. (For isolation/other reasons, one may want the
>>> option to force everything to be docker, but that's more of a "don't make
>>> substitutions" option than manually providing environment configs.)
>>
>>
>> In this example, wouldn't you normally just rebuild the pipeline? I'm not
>> sure what the advantage of re-using the same model proto is.
>>
>
> Yes, you'd re-build the pipeline. But if all you change is the --runner
> flag the model proto produced should not change. (And, sometimes, you may
> want to stash the proto itself, or pass it to one-of-N runners depending on
> some other condition, etc.)
>
>
>>  It would be helpful for me to have concrete usecases of why a user wants
>>> to customize the container used by some transform they did not write, which
>>> could possibly inform the best course(s) of action here.
>>
>>
>> I should have led with this. Someone wanted to mount credentials into the
>> SDK harness [1]. So in this particular case the user just wants to mount
>> files into their SDK harness, which is a pretty common use case, so
>> resource hints are probably a more appropriate solution.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r690094f1c9ebc4e1d20f029a21ba8bc846672a65baafd57c4f52cb94%40%3Cuser.beam.apache.org%3E
>>
>
> Ah, that clarifies things. Would it be possible/preferable to pass the
> credentials as parameters to the transform itself?
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Robert Bradshaw <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 12:38 PM Kyle Weaver <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, an external transform is uniquely identified by its URN. An
>>>>> external transform identified by a URN may refer to an arbitrary composite
>>>>> which may have sub-transforms that refer to different environments. I 
>>>>> think
>>>>> with the above proposal we'll lose this flexibility.
>>>>> What we need is a way to override environments (or properties of
>>>>> environments) that results in the final pipeline proto. Once we modify 
>>>>> such
>>>>> environments in the proto it will be reflected to all transforms that
>>>>> utilize such environments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can tell we currently only register a single environment
>>>> for the entire transform (and it's always the default). Am I missing
>>>> something?
>>>> https://github.com/apache/beam/blob/0cfa80fd919d141a2061393ec5c12521c7d7af0b/sdks/java/expansion-service/src/main/java/org/apache/beam/sdk/expansion/service/ExpansionService.java#L447-L449
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I don't see how sub-transforms require overrides. We should be
>>>> able to propagate environment options to sub-transforms to achieve the same
>>>> purpose.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The discussion of resource hints at
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra40286b66a03a1d9f4086c9e1ecdeb9f299836d2d0361c3e3fe7c382%40%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E
>>> actually may tie into this as well. I would assume a localised request for,
>>> say, high memory should be propagated down to cross-language pipelines. It
>>> is possible that other customizations (such as making sure specific
>>> dependencies are available, or filesystems mounted) would fit here too.
>>>
>>> This gets into the distinction of customizing what kind of environment
>>> one wants to have (which could be generally applicable) vs. an absolute
>>> designation of a particular environment (e.g. a docker image).
>>>
>>> Note that what we're running into in part is that "pipeline options" are
>>> the wrong level of granularity for specifying characteristics of an
>>> environment, as there is not a single environment to parameterize (or,
>>> possibly, even one per language). If I call
>>> ExpansionRequset(MyFancyTransform,environment_config=docker_path)
>>> and MyFancyTransform is composed of two environments, to which
>>> does docker_path apply? What about PTransforms that use ExternalTransforms
>>> under the hood (e.g does some pre-processing and then calls SQL, or calls
>>> Kafka followed by some Python-level post-processing)?
>>>
>>>
>>> 'sdk_harness_container_image_overrides' is such a property (which
>>>>> unfortunately only works for Dataflow today). Also this only works for
>>>>> Docker URLs. Maybe we can extend this property to all runners or introduce
>>>>> a new property that works for all types of environments ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my original email, I wrote that
>>>> sdk_harness_container_image_overrides is no more flexible than having a
>>>> single option per SDK, since the default container images for all external
>>>> transforms in each SDK are expected to be the same. For example, in the
>>>> case of a pipeline with two external transforms that both use the same
>>>> default container image, sdk_harness_container_image_overrides does not let
>>>> the user give those two transforms different containers.
>>>>
>>>> From a design standpoint, I feel find-replace is hacky and backwards.
>>>> It's cleaner to specify what kind of environment we want directly in
>>>> the ExpansionRequest. That way all of the environment creation logic
>>>> belongs inside the expansion service.
>>>>
>>>
>>> While Environments logically belong with Transforms, it is the expansion
>>> service's job to attach the right environments to the transforms that it
>>> vends. The caller should not need any visibility into the environment(s)
>>> that an expansion service uses, which is an implementation detail that the
>>> expansion service is free to change at any time. (In fact, whether it is
>>> (partially or fully) implemented as an external transform is an
>>> implementation detail that the end user should not need to care about or
>>> depend on.)
>>>
>>> I personally think pattern matching and substitution by runners (maybe
>>> more sophisticated than regexp on container names) is a reasonable way to
>>> approach customization of environments. For example, suppose I construct a
>>> pipeline that uses both Python and Java transforms. (I could do this from
>>> Go, Java, or Python). If I want to run this locally (e.g. on the Python
>>> FnAPI runner), I would prefer that the python bits be run in-process but
>>> would have to shell out (maybe via docker, maybe something cheaper) for the
>>> java bits. On the other hand, if I want to run this same pipeline (ideally,
>>> the same model proto, such that we don't have
>>> runner-dependent construction) on Flink, I might want the java bits to be
>>> inlined and the Python bits to be in a separate process. On Dataflow, both
>>> would live in containers. To do this, the Python runner would say "hey, I
>>> know that Python environment" and just swap it out for in-process, and vice
>>> versa. (For isolation/other reasons, one may want the option to force
>>> everything to be docker, but that's more of a "don't make substitutions"
>>> option than manually providing environment configs.)
>>>
>>> On the other hand, as we go the route of custom containers, especially
>>> expansion services that might vend custom containers, I think we need a way
>>> to push down *properties* of environments (such as resource hints) through
>>> the expansion service that may influence the environments that get attached
>>> and returned.
>>>
>>> It would be helpful for me to have concrete usecases of why a user wants
>>> to customize the container used by some transform they did not write, which
>>> could possibly inform the best course(s) of action here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 5:07 PM Chamikara Jayalath <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 12:34 PM Kyle Weaver <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Beamers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently we’ve had some requests on user@ and Slack for instructions
>>>>>> on how to use custom-built containers in cross-language pipelines
>>>>>> (typically calling Java transforms from a predominantly Python pipeline).
>>>>>> Currently, it seems like there is no way to change the container used by 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> cross-language transform except by modifying and rebuilding the expansion
>>>>>> service. The SDK does not pass pipeline options to the expansion service
>>>>>> (BEAM-9449 [1]). Fixing BEAM-9449 does not solve everything, however. 
>>>>>> Even
>>>>>> if pipeline options are passed, the existing set of pipeline options 
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> limits the amount of control we have over environments. Here are the
>>>>>> existing pipeline options that I’m aware of:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Python [2] and Go [3] have these:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment_type (DOCKER, PROCESS, LOOPBACK)
>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment_config (This one is confusingly overloaded. It’s a
>>>>>>    string that means different things depending on environment_type. For
>>>>>>    DOCKER, it is the Docker image URL. For PROCESS it is a JSON blob. For
>>>>>>    EXTERNAL, it is the external service address.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whereas Java [4] has defaultEnvironmentType and
>>>>>> defaultEnvironmentConfig, which are named differently but otherwise act 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same as the above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was unsatisfied with environment_config for a number of reasons.
>>>>>> First, having a single overloaded option that can mean entirely different
>>>>>> things depending on context is poor design. Second, in PROCESS mode,
>>>>>> requiring the user to type in a JSON blob for environment_config is not
>>>>>> especially human-friendly (though it has also been argued that JSON makes
>>>>>> complex arguments like this easier to parse). Finally, we must overload
>>>>>> this string further to introduce new environment-specific options, such 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> a mounted Docker volume (BEAM-5440 [5]).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Agree.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To address these problems, I added a new option called
>>>>>> “environment_options” (BEAM-10671 [6]). (This option has been implemented
>>>>>> in the Python SDK, but not the other SDKs yet.) Environment_options,
>>>>>> similar to the “experiments” option, takes a list of strings, for example
>>>>>> “--environment_option=docker_container_image=my_beam_sdk:latest”. It 
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> be argued we should have made “docker_container_image” etc. top-level
>>>>>> options instead, but this “catch-all” design makes what I am about to
>>>>>> propose a lot easier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The solution proposed in PR #11638 [7] set a flag to include
>>>>>> unrecognized pipeline options during serialization, since otherwise
>>>>>> unrecognized options are dropped. In a Python pipeline, this will allow 
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> to set environment_config and default_environment_config to separate
>>>>>> values, for Python and Java containers, respectively. However, this still
>>>>>> limits us to one container image for all Python and Go transforms, and 
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> container image for all Java transforms. As more cross-language 
>>>>>> transforms
>>>>>> are implemented, sooner or later someone will want to have different Java
>>>>>> SDK containers for different external transforms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I should also mention the sdk_harness_container_image_overrides
>>>>>> pipeline option [8], which is currently only supported by the Dataflow
>>>>>> runner. It lets us basically perform a find/replace on container image
>>>>>> strings. This is not significantly more flexible than having a single
>>>>>> option per SDK, since the default container images for all external
>>>>>> transforms in each SDK are expected to be the same.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Environments logically belong with transforms, and that’s how it
>>>>>> works in the Runner API [9]. The problem now is that from the user’s
>>>>>> perspective, the environment is bound to the expansion service. After
>>>>>> addressing BEAM-9449, the problem will be that one or two environments at
>>>>>> most are bound to the pipeline. Ideally, though, users should have fully
>>>>>> granular control over environments at the transform level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All this context for a very simple proposal: we should have all
>>>>>> ExternalTransform subclasses take optional environment_type and
>>>>>> environment_options fields in their constructors. As with their
>>>>>> corresponding pipeline options, these options would default to DOCKER and
>>>>>> none, respectively. Then we could overwrite the environment_type and
>>>>>> environment_options in the pipeline options passed to the expansion 
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> with these values. (Alternatively, we could pass environment_type and
>>>>>> environment_options to the expansion service individually to avoid having
>>>>>> to overwrite their original values, but their original values should be
>>>>>> irrelevant to the expansion service anyway.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, an external transform is uniquely identified by its URN. An
>>>>> external transform identified by a URN may refer to an arbitrary composite
>>>>> which may have sub-transforms that refer to different environments. I 
>>>>> think
>>>>> with the above proposal we'll lose this flexibility.
>>>>> What we need is a way to override environments (or properties of
>>>>> environments) that results in the final pipeline proto. Once we modify 
>>>>> such
>>>>> environments in the proto it will be reflected to all transforms that
>>>>> utilize such environments.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'sdk_harness_container_image_overrides' is such a property (which
>>>>> unfortunately only works for Dataflow today). Also this only works for
>>>>> Docker URLs. Maybe we can extend this property to all runners or introduce
>>>>> a new property that works for all types of environments ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Cham
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-9449
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/beam/blob/f2c9b6e1aa5d38385f4c168107c85d4fe7f0f259/sdks/python/apache_beam/options/pipeline_options.py#L1097-L1115
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [3]
>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/beam/blob/b56b61a9a6401271f14746000ecc38b17aab753d/sdks/go/pkg/beam/options/jobopts/options.go#L41-L53
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [4]
>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/beam/blob/b56b61a9a6401271f14746000ecc38b17aab753d/sdks/java/core/src/main/java/org/apache/beam/sdk/options/PortablePipelineOptions.java#L53-L71
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [5] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-5440
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [6] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-10671
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [7] https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/11638
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [8]
>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/beam/blob/f2c9b6e1aa5d38385f4c168107c85d4fe7f0f259/sdks/python/apache_beam/options/pipeline_options.py#L840-L850
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [9]
>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/beam/blob/b56b61a9a6401271f14746000ecc38b17aab753d/model/pipeline/src/main/proto/beam_runner_api.proto#L194
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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