One other note: Talend has customers on 2.7.x that are not likely to move to 2.8.0 any time soon. As Christian pointed out, lots of companies use a 6-8 month cycle, Some longer, some shorter, and won't move off what they have for quite a bit of time. Thus, no matter what, I am going to have to port some bug fixes back to 2.7.x. There isn't anyway for me to avoid that (unless I tell my customers "too bad, no fixes" which would not go over well :-) ). I COULD do the porting on some private fork of the Camel branches and deliver the fixes to the customers that way. That's definitely a perfectly valid way to do it. In that case, all my work really would just benefit a small number of Camel users. I'd MUCH MUCH prefer to do the porting here and allow my work to benefit the entire Camel community. It's the exact same amount of work, just in a different place. (well, I suppose if the fork is using git, it could be a little less work as merging with git is so much nicer and faster, but still, that's minor)
Likewise for releases. I could create private releases and stick them in a "talend" repository someplace (and in some cases, I may need to do that anyway), but I could also do roughly the same amount of work here (calling the vote is additional work here, but that's minor) and the entire Camel user base benefits. In addition, the releases here would go to central which makes our customers happy. (no Nexus updates, firewall rules updates, etc...) In short, the incremental cost for *ME* to continue supporting the fixes branches that our customers are using is negligible. There's really no reason to not do it. It has an additional benefit of making other Camel users happier by providing more stable releases for them to use. IMO, it's basically a "win-win" all around, or am I missing something? Dan On Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:55:16 AM Christian Schneider wrote: > Hi Willem, > > I can explain a bit from my experience as a user of Camel and CXF at my > former employer regarding patch releases. > > We updated our stack every 6 to 8 months. With CXF this mostly simply > worked. When some bug was detected we could create an issue and help fix > it. It went into the next patch release and we could > update to this one instead of the feature release. > > With Camel it was different. Every new release had a lot of new features > and changes. So we almost every time found a bug in the release that > prevented us to switch or that was a problem in production that needed > to be addressed. What went very well in Camel was reporting and fixing > bugs. I think Camel is probably the project I used where fixes to bugs > were made fastest. The problem was that the fix was only on trunk. Then > later it was incorporated into the new version. So my first strategy was > to update to the most current camel release when a bug was found and > fixed. The problem was that we almost every time found another problem > in the new release. > So what I did in the end was building our own release with the patches > to the bugs we had. This worked very well but not every customer wants > to do this. > > Patch releases like 2.7.3 give the customer the fixes they need without > the breaking changes that cause new bugs. So from a customer standpoint > patch releases are very valueable. Of course they make life for us more > complicated so I think we should mostly only support one patch release > and one feature release at the same time. Of course a company like Fuse > or Talend can also do patch releases on their own but I think it is > better to have these releases at apache so it is transparent to the > customer what is in each release and he has no fear of vendor lock in. > > Christian > > Am 06.07.2011 04:09, schrieb Willem Jiang: > > Hi Hadrian, > > > > I think we are ready for the Camel 2.8.0 release. > > But I'm not sure why you are still planing to do the patch release for > > the 2.7.x as we never do this kind small patch release unless it > > relates to a serious security issue before. > > > > Can we just let the people move on to Camel 2.8.0 instead of confusing > > about what's difference between the Camel 2.8.0 and Camel 2.7.3 ? > > > > On 7/5/11 12:11 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea wrote: > >> Karaf 2.2.2 is now available and Willem did the upgrade. I think we > >> can > >> get ready to start the release. Are there any other issues that must > >> go > >> into 2.8.0? > >> > >> I would also build a 2.7.3 at the same time, there are a few fixes and > >> improvements, including some around xmlsecurity. > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> Hadrian > >> > >> On 06/30/2011 11:07 PM, Willem Jiang wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I just applied the patch into trunk. > >>> > >>> On 7/1/11 12:36 AM, Donald Whytock wrote: > >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-3948 > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Donald > >>>> Whytock<dwhyt...@gmail.com> > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> Just a reminder...CAMEL-3948 is marked as fixed, but the current > >>>>> trunk > >>>>> still needs my final patch. > >>>>> > >>>>> Don > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:46 AM, Jean-Baptiste > >>>>> > >>>>> Onofré<j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: > >>>>>> Hi Claus, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regarding Karaf 2.2.2, I've released OPS4J dependencies > >>>>>> yesterday. > >>>>>> Jamie > >>>>>> will cut off the release this afternoon. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regards > >>>>>> JB > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 06/30/2011 08:31 AM, Claus Ibsen wrote: > >>>>>>> Hi > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Okay the JIRA roadmap for Camel 2.8 seems good now. There is > >>>>>>> 2 open > >>>>>>> tickets. > >>>>>>> - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-3774 > >>>>>>> - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-4144 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> CAMEL-3774 is about generating the manual and is assigned to > >>>>>>> Hadrian. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> CAMEL-4144 is about upgrading to Karaf 2.2.2. That release > >>>>>>> is in > >>>>>>> progress. > >>>>>>> So by good chance we should be able to pickup that version > >>>>>>> when its > >>>>>>> released. > >>>>>>> Alternatively we can stick to Karaf 2.2.1 which works fine. > >>>>>>> (CAMEL-4144 is about some maven validate goal that would > >>>>>>> require > >>>>>>> Karaf > >>>>>>> 2.2.2 to pickup a fix in Karaf, but running Camel in Karaf > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>> absolutely fine) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The CI servers also seems good. Although they tend to run > >>>>>>> out of > >>>>>>> memory at the end, such as when testing the examples. But > >>>>>>> those are > >>>>>>> the last piece of the build, and thus all components tests > >>>>>>> fine. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I suggest that when Karaf 2.2.2 is out we git it a few spins > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> the CI > >>>>>>> servers and then start cutting the Camel 2.8 release. Would > >>>>>>> be > >>>>>>> good to > >>>>>>> get it out before the summer vacation starts. As well its > >>>>>>> more > >>>>>>> than 3 > >>>>>>> months since Camel 2.7 was released. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Claus > >>>>>>> Ibsen<claus.ib...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Okay we should really start focusing on getting the last > >>>>>>>> tickets > >>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>> has been assigned for 2.8 release done now. > >>>>>>>> There is about 350 tickets on the roadmap, so its going to > >>>>>>>> be the > >>>>>>>> biggest release, since 2.0 went GA. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> So please take a look at your assigned tickets and get > >>>>>>>> them > >>>>>>>> done, or > >>>>>>>> move them for 2.9. > >>>>>>>> Then keep eyes on CI servers and help fix any test > >>>>>>>> failures, so we > >>>>>>>> have green builds. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The summer vacation period is approaching so we should > >>>>>>>> IMHO get > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> 2.8 release out early next month if possible. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Hadrian > >>>>>>>> Zbarcea<hzbar...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I would propose starting to close down and prepare for > >>>>>>>>> the 2.8.0 > >>>>>>>>> release > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> 2-3 weeks. There are already 282 issues for 2.8.0 and > >>>>>>>>> chances are > >>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>> over 300 by the release time, probably setting a new > >>>>>>>>> record. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> As of now there are 17 issues unresolved, a few of them > >>>>>>>>> almost > >>>>>>>>> done, so > >>>>>>>>> by > >>>>>>>>> next week I assume there'll be significantly less. I > >>>>>>>>> would > >>>>>>>>> suggest > >>>>>>>>> shifting > >>>>>>>>> the focus from adding new features to stabilizing the > >>>>>>>>> build. If > >>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>> any issues you know of that you think absolutely must be > >>>>>>>>> in 2.8.0 > >>>>>>>>> please > >>>>>>>>> shout and ask for help if needed (especially non > >>>>>>>>> committers > >>>>>>>>> subscribing > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> this list). > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thoughts? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hadrian -- Daniel Kulp dk...@apache.org http://dankulp.com/blog Talend - http://www.talend.com
