Russel, I don't read that out of Chris' answer. He just tried to show how community development might look like if done a bit more openly.
Do you mind going back to Chris' original reply and re-read it again? I've not interpreted it as anyone trying to make you look bad. Au contraire! txs and LieGrue, strub > On Saturday, 5 November 2016, 13:56, Russell Bradberry <rbradbe...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > It seems that your tactic of argument is to discredit me at every level in > > order > to show your superiority of sorts. Let me set this straight, I am not > attempting to say that I am an authority on ASF or that I know how things > should > be run. I also was not attempting to vilify you in front of the board or > vilify > you in any way. My complaint is that your rhetoric is unprofessional; and as > a > representative of the board the language you use is, plainly, casting a bad > light on the ASF. > > I understand all of your concerns and was not attempting to minimize them in > any > way; they are legitimate concerns. The way you are handling them is what I > am > concerned with and the tone you take is what I believe is helping divide the > community. Being the “villain” as you say is what is the problem. If you > cast > yourself as the villain as a representative of the foundation you are then > making the foundation look bad. > > Lastly, I may not have a vote, but I do have a voice. Everyone in the > community > does and can be heard, if not then it isn’t much of a community at all. I > wouldn’t have you voted off the board nor do I want you to be voted off the > board, I have not enough information to make a sound decision in that regard. > > > All I ask if for some common professionalism and courtesy, nothing more. > > > > > On 11/4/16, 4:46 PM, "Chris Mattmann" <mattm...@apache.org> > wrote: > > Hi Russ, > > Sorry that you feel that way. I’m happy to be the villain when it comes > to > protecting > those same ideals you cite regarding Apache in your below thread. You see > I’ve been > around since 2004 and elected by the membership to the Board for the last > three years > based on merit, and contributions towards those ideals over a decade of > the > ASF. > I’ve been around longer than Apache Cassandra and this community and > fully > intend > for that to continue. My job is not to only care about Cassandra. It’s to > ensure that the > ASF is a vendor neutral ground for ALL of its projects. You see I > actually > understand and > have read what’s required of me to serve the membership of the ASF and > its > communities. > I take this VERY seriously. Perhaps more than you know. > > You see the other problem with your complaint about me – is that > unfortunately you > do not have a voice to act on that complaint. You won’t have a vote in > the > next Apache > Board election. You won’t have a vote in the next Members election. And > *that* is > the rub. I wouldn’t even care if you did or not and you voted against me > on > the ballot. > If the Apache Cassandra PMC or community cared enough about you or your > contributions > to the project, you would have been made a committer, or PMC member, long > ago, and > heck you would have even had a chance to become an ASF member where you > could do > more than simply voice your displeasure with my actions, you would be > able > to vote with > your feet against my tyranny of trying to make this project’s management > committee > understand their responsibilities for the ASF. I don’t even consider your > requests to have > me vilified in front of the Board something that would disqualify you for > membership in > the PMC or committee. If you have been making contributions, even > discussion > threads, > answering questions, etc., to the point of your prior emails including > this > one – why haven’t > you been elected to have a binding voice within the project? Please ask > yourself that. > > In fact, please ask yourself – what is a “Cassandra MVP” compared to a > member of the > ASF which is home to the project? Also please go look at all the people > I’ve > been privy and > voted on granting membership to within the foundation since 2011, go look > at > some of the > functioning and healthy projects that don’t have a problem with vendor > neutrality at the > ASF, and *then* come and talk to me about how my professional and > character > isn’t such > to stand on the board of the ASF. Again, I’ll wait. > > If it’s a hostile request to ask that a potentially inflammatory Twitter > discussion that I attempted > to bring about to the *source of the project’s discussion here at the > ASF* > and for a mail summarizing > that Twitter discussion to be moderated through within 12 hours, and > for the PMC of an Apache project to understand its commitments regarding > having > geographically diverse moderators for their Apache lists; and if it’s a > hostile request to > ask that all members of the community including those non committers > and/or > PMC > that take to Twitter to voice their concerns when they are not sure of > even > where the > canonical discussion for the project is have a voice here on the > canonical > lists for the project > then there is something fundamentally wrong with the community. I will > assert again based > on my reading of the facts including archives, code, discussions here and > outside of the ASF, abuse > of trademarks, vendor non-neutrality, tea leaves and the collective WHOLE > of > those things that my initial > request to bring the conversation on list - that was met with the usual > random drive by vitriol and my follow > up asking how in the bleeping world there were at least 3 emails > questioning > whether or not an email > should be moderated though - was warranted. > > I state this as someone who has seen Apache projects come and go and will > continue to see that, even ones at the same level of interest as > Cassandra > (and much > much more too as well). If it’s hostile for a Board member to drive the > discussions to > the mailing list instead of outside sources, then my apologies for my > hostility. You will > continue to get that apology as I continue to do my job and what I signed > up > to do as an > ASF board member in terms of maintaining that vendor neutrality, > irrespective of whether > or not people don’t like my directness, frankness, and discussion. > > Chris > > On 11/4/16, 1:09 PM, "Russell Bradberry" > <rbradbe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > - ... we are arguing whether to f'ing moderate it through. Wow. > Great > job. > - Do you think it's healthy to send emails trying to talk shit > instead > of ... > - ... project? Or is Twitter the official list now? Go ahead, > I'll wait. > > > Given your behavior and rhetoric on this thread, I believe you lack > the > professionalism and character to be a board member of anything, let > alone > representing the Apache Software Foundation and it's ideals. > I've CC'd the > rest of the Apache board because I would like to formally complain > about > your divisive rhetoric and overall unprofessional conduct within this > mailing list. > > This list, and community, are made up of individuals and volunteers. I > believe, attacking them, even though you believe you may have been > attacked, detracts from the conversation and elevates tension in an > already > tense community. I encourage others to chime in if I am misreading > here. I > personally feel that someone acting in a leadership capacity, such as > a > board member, should be held to a higher standard of professionalism > and > conduct when doing business; whether it is with their board member > hat > on > or not. I would hate for it to be assumed that the entire Apache > board > encourages, promotes, or even acts in this manner. > > -Russ > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 1:18 PM Mattmann, Chris A (3010) < > chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > > > Mark Thomas got it done ✅ > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Nov 4, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Jason Brown > <jasedbr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > s/sis/is > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Jason Brown > <jasedbr...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Chris, > > >> > > >> Yes, I would like to be added, and here sis the ticket I > filed: > > >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12858. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> -Jason > > >> > > >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Chris Mattmann > <mattm...@apache.org> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I have apmail karma and can add moderators. > > >>> > > >>> Jason I can add you - please confirm you would like to > be added. Did > > you > > >>> file the ticket - if so point me to it. If you > haven't yet, no worries > > I > > >>> can still add you. Let me know. Thanks. > > >>> > > >>>> On 2016-11-04 09:54 (-0700), Jason Brown > <jasedbr...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >>>> Gary, > > >>>> > > >>>> I've just started looking into the moderator > component due to this > > >>> thread; > > >>>> I admit I did not know about it before (my fault). > Yes, I would like > > to > > >>> be > > >>>> added. Apparently, I need to file an INFRA ticket > (as per > > >>>> > https://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#mailing-list-moderators), > > >>> which > > >>>> I will do in the next few minutes. > > >>>> > > >>>> -Jason > > >>>> > > >>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Gary Dusbabek > <gdusba...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the > only one with moderator privs. Any > > >>> other > > >>>>> committer/PMCs interested? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Sorry, it's a chore to begin with and > I've been traveling this week. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Gary. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Chris Mattmann > <mattm...@apache.org> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Folks, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Kelly Sommers sent a message to > dev@cassandra and I'm trying to > > >>> figure > > >>>>>> out if it's in moderation. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Can the moderators speak up? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Cheers, > > >>>>>> Chris > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >
