Personally I'm not at much risk of missing a deadline if it's still two weeks out. I was thinking more along the lines that others - who have been hard at work on 4.3 RC testing, as well - might miss their deadlines.
I can see your point of view, Erik. In my case, it's the opposite: customers would rather have feature X from SolidFire sooner rather than wait another 1/3 of a year. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Erik Weber <terbol...@gmail.com> wrote: > As a customer of several companies involved with cloudstack i must say that > having a reliable time schedule is more important than having feature X. > We've been waiting for 4.3 since we discovered a bug that got fixed in 4.3 > but not in 4.2 branch and rendered us unable to use that version. > > If 4.3 had held it's schedule we would've been rolling almost one month > ago, instead we are still wasting time waiting for a supported version. > > If 4.4 now were to be postponed and an important bug appears in 4.3 with a > fix in 4.4 it would have me thinking about moving to other solutions if i > know that it'll be 5-6 months before release. > > Erik > 27. feb. 2014 20:57 skrev "Mike Tutkowski" <mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com> > følgende: > > > I'm not sure I would say that not moving the feature-freeze date is a > > penalty, but it does have consequences for customers...as does the fact > > that we miss our release deadlines consistently. > > > > If you are working on a feature that hasn't been advertised to your > > customers via a roadmap or some other mechanism, then it doesn't really > > matter, I suppose, if you release that feature today or, say, four months > > from now when the next release comes out. > > > > However, many of us work under the direction of a roadmap that has been > > made visible to our customers. In such an environment, these customers do > > expect when you tell them feature X will be out in, say, 4.3 that it > does, > > in fact, come out in 4.3 and not four months later in 4.4. > > > > I just wanted to point this out because I've seen in several e-mails over > > the past year the following idea: If a feature doesn't make it into this > > release, no big deal - it can be put in the next release. > > > > While technically true, this does not take into consideration customer > > expectations around feature-release dates. > > > > Personally, I'd rather push a feature-freeze date back by a couple weeks > > than make customers (of mine or anyone else's) wait another 1/3 of a year > > or more for the feature(s) in question. > > > > At some point, however, we need to conduct a retrospective to uncover why > > we are not hitting our deadlines. Perhaps the deadlines are too tight? > > Perhaps there is a process issue missing (or in place) that prevents us > > from doing so? etc. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:21 PM, John Kinsella <j...@stratosec.co> wrote: > > > > > I don't see not moving the freeze date as a penalty. If a feature > > doesn't > > > make the current deadline, it moves to the next release, which is > still a > > > few months away. For significant issues, it's not uncommon for us to > > allow > > > them in late. > > > > > > What we have a stronger need for than shifting a date, by several > orders > > > of magnitude, is understanding why the RC process took so long and what > > we > > > can do in the future to make that not so painful. > > > > > > For the record I'm +0 on moving the feature freeze date. > > > > > > John > > > > > > On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Ram Ganesh <ram.gan...@citrix.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I share it too. Many developers in the community went out of their > way > > > to get a cleaner RC and thereby impacting their feature development > > > efforts. We shouldn't be penalizing them with this 2 week's feature > > freeze > > > schedule > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > RamG > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Animesh Chaturvedi [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] > > > >> Sent: 27 February 2014 03:00 > > > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > >> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > >> > > > >> Mike I share your opinion most of us have been pretty much on 4.3 > > until > > > >> now, and pushing out the release seems reasonable. As I called out > in > > > earlier > > > >> mail the feature proposal date was not called out for 4.4 and as > such > > > giving > > > >> little extra room seems reasonable. > > > >> > > > >> Animesh > > > >> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:29 AM > > > >>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > >>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > >>> > > > >>> I think we're having this discussion after every release because > > we're > > > >>> beginning to realize that a four-month release cycle has not been > > very > > > >>> realistic for us yet. > > > >>> > > > >>> The main issue I encounter is our month-long RC cycle where I > spend a > > > >>> bunch of time validating the RC and (during that timeframe) less > time > > > >>> developing for the next release as I had initially planned. > > > >>> > > > >>> Perhaps instead of extending the cycle we could consider ways to > > > >>> actually meet the schedule on a consistent basis. That would be > fine, > > > as > > > >> well. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Hugo Trippaers <h...@trippaers.nl > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> -1 on postponing the feature freeze. We are having this discussion > > > >>>> after every release, however we agreed to do a 4 month cycle so > > > >>>> let's stick > > > >>> to it. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> If there are important features that are currently being developed > > > >>>> but might not make this cut-off date we should discuss that > > > >>>> separately, but as a point of principle lets stick to the release > > > schedule as > > > >> proposed. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Cheers, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Hugo > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On 26 feb. 2014, at 15:23, Tracy Phillips > > > >>>> <tracy.phill...@weberize.com> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> +1 to Daan. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Tracy Phillips > > > >>>>> Weberize, Inc. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Daan Hoogland > > > >>>>> <daan.hoogl...@gmail.com > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> -1 for postponing the feature freeze. It will amount to more > > > >>>>>> features in the release. I'd rather shorten the cycle and do > more > > > >>>>>> releases then to pack more bugs in a single go. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Guo Star <ghxand...@gmail.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> +1 > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> 2014-02-26 20:01 GMT+08:00 Abhinandan Prateek < > > > >>>>>> abhinandan.prat...@citrix.com > > > >>>>>>>> : > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> +1 for 4.4 feature freeze on 3/28. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On 26/02/14 10:01 am, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi" > > > >>>>>>>> <sateesh.chodapune...@citrix.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>>>>>>>>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] > > > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 26 February 2014 04:46 > > > >>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is a good idea, Animesh (to push out feature > > > >>>>>>>>>> freeze to 3/28). > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> +1 to move 4.4 feature freeze date to 3/28. > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > > > >>>>>>>>> Sateesh > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I also agree we should discuss 4+ month development cycles > > > >> again. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi < > > > >>>>>>>>>> animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I will start a separate discussion on 4 month cycle or > > > >>>>>>>>>>> longer, but wanted to call out one more important date. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> We have a last day for feature proposal date which is > > > >>>>>>>>>>> typically a month before feature freeze date. If following > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 schedule + 4 > > > >>>>>> month > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it would have been 2/14 and we are already past that. Since > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it was > > > >>>>>> not > > > >>>>>>>>>>> announced for > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.4 release yet my suggestion would be to keep feature > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proposal > > > >>>>>> open > > > >>>>>>>>>>> for another week and push all the dates out by 2 weeks to > > > >>>>>>>>>>> give > > > >>>>>> folks > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to finish up their features for new proposals > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that are > > > >>>>>> yet > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to come out. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To be clear that would mean pushing out feature freeze to > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/28 from > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/14 and all the other dates likewise. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Animesh > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Animesh Chaturvedi > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 1:05 PM > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> With the experience of 4.2 and 4.3 I think we should > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> discuss if > > > >>>>>> we > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> can realistically achieve 4 month cycle our RCs take 2 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> months. I > > > >>>>>> was > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> going to open up the discussion after 4.3 is shipped > though. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Trippie [mailto:trip...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > Hugo > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trippaers > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:50 AM > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If we stick to our 4 month release schedule the feature > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze > > > >>>>>> is > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> four months after the feature freeze of 4.3. The feature > > > >>>>>> freeze of > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 was > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 8 Nov > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So the proposed release schedule for 4.4 would look like > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this (dates slightly modified to take efficiency and RM's > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> personal > > > >>>>>> life > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> into > > > >>>>>>>>>>> account ;-) ): > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature Freeze: March 14, 2014 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Testing/Bug Fixes: March 15, 2014 till > > April > > > >>>>>> 18, > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2014 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (direct access for committers) > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stability Fixes only: April 19, > 2014 > > > till > > > >>>>>>>>>>> release (cherry picks > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by RM only) > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> First RC: May 9, 2014 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optimistic Release Date: May 19, 2014 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugo > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 feb. 2014, at 16:35, Sudha Ponnaganti > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <sudha.ponnaga...@citrix.com> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also looking for feature freeze dates for 4.4. Can > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RM > > > >>>>>> post > > > >>>>>>>>>>> those? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sudha > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alex Hitchins [mailto:alex.hitch...@shapeblue.com > ] > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:00 AM > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the 4.3 isn't quite out the door yet, but is > there > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a timetable > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere stating when the feature freeze for 4.4 will > be? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to submit a feature and want to ensure that > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's prepared in > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> time. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Hitchins > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP Software Engineering > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D: +44 1892 523 587 | S: +44 20 3603 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0540<tel:+442036030540> > > > >>>>>> | > > > >>>>>>>>>> M: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> +44<tel:+447968161581> 7788 423 969 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ShapeBlue Ltd, 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WC2N > > > >>>>>> 4HS > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need Enterprise Grade Support for Apache CloudStack? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our CloudStack Infrastructure > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure-support/> offers the best 24/7 SLA for > > > >>>>>> CloudStack > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Environments. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache CloudStack Bootcamp training courses > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> **NEW!** CloudStack 4.2.1 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> training/> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18th-19th February 2014, Brazil. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Classroom<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17th-23rd March 2014, Region A. 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ShapeBlue is > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> registered trademark. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski* > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > > > >>>>>>>>>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > > > >>>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302 > > > >>>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world uses the > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > > > >>>>>>>>>> *(tm)* > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>> Daan > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski* > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > > > >>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302 > > > >>> Advancing the way the world uses the > > > >>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > > > >>> *(tm)* > > > > > > Stratosec - Compliance as a Service > > > o: 415.315.9385 > > > @johnlkinsella > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *Mike Tutkowski* > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > > e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > > o: 303.746.7302 > > Advancing the way the world uses the > > cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > > *(tm)* > > > -- *Mike Tutkowski* *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com o: 303.746.7302 Advancing the way the world uses the cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> *(tm)*
