Is that just your opinion? Or something that is documented elsewhere as a part of the rules of the game for projects of the ASF? And if so, where?
Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* Services & Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail & Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) < ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote: > In the absence of bye-laws the defaults apply. > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ________________________________ > From: Pierre Smits<mailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com> > Sent: 7/4/2015 3:35 PM > To: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> > Subject: Re: Incubating, Graduating & Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off > of Better specifying....) > > How can that be? The board of the ASF explicitly tasks the projects (at > least those that I have seen, as mentioned in my earlier posting) to > establish a set of bylaws. That sounds like a binding clause for being a > project of the ASF. The conclusion that can be derived from that is that > the project that don't comply can't be an Apache project until that > condition is met. > > Best regards, > > Pierre Smits > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > Based Manufacturing, Professional > Services and Retail & Trade > http://www.orrtiz.com > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 1:28 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) < > ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > > No I said if projects don't write bye-laws then the defaults if the > Apache > > Way apply. If they have local bye-laws they are expected to be in the > > spirit of the Apache Way but tuned to the specifics of that project. > > > > Sent from my Windows Phone > > ________________________________ > > From: Pierre Smits<mailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com> > > Sent: 7/4/2015 3:16 PM > > To: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> > > Subject: Incubating, Graduating & Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of > > Better specifying....) > > > > Off list? > > > > I am sure that quite a few more than just I couldn't > > distill anything insightful or meaningful from your alrgument. > > > > So are we to understand that doing the right thing with respect to the > > community is pushing paperwork? Doesn't that make the Community over Code > > aspect of the Apache Way nothing more than a hollow phrase? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Pierre > > > > Op zaterdag 4 juli 2015 heeft Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) < > > ross.gard...@microsoft.com > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ross.gard...@microsoft.com');>> het > volgende > > geschreven: > > > > > Sorry rushing and as has been pointed out off list auto-correct was not > > > kind here. > > > > > > First sentence is unparseable so here it is again: > > > > > > The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not pushing paperwork > (or > > > the electronic equivalent). > > > > > > Sent from my Windows Phone > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)<mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com> > > > Sent: 7/4/2015 10:08 AM > > > To: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> > > > Subject: RE: Incubating, Graduating & Code of conduct @ The ASF > (spin-off > > > of Better specifying....) > > > > > > The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not loading passport > (our > > > the electronic equivalent). There are default position for most > > situations > > > in a project. In the absence of project specific exceptions the default > > > applies. Most projects are happy with the default and prefer to write > > code > > > instead. > > > > > > Where a project has local exceptions they must conform to the spirit of > > > the Apache Way. If they don't then the community can turn to the PMC > (and > > > if necessary the board) to address areas of concern. > > > > > > It's always possible to better document things, but the documentation > is > > > there. E.g. > > > > > > http://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html > > > and http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > > > > Ross > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows Phone > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Pierre Smits<mailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com> > > > Sent: 7/4/2015 9:34 AM > > > To: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> > > > Subject: Incubating, Graduating & Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off > of > > > Better specifying....) > > > > > > >> Having such an official ASF policy without the executing office > > policing > > > >> it, without podlings being required to accept and instill it in > their > > > >> bylaws before graduation and allowing existing projects not to > > > incorporate > > > >> it makes it nothing more than a hollow statement, > > > >> > > > > Being part of IPMC, I thought it was part of the incubator to make > sure > > > that > > > > exactly this happened. > > > > > > Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for > > this > > > year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling > > > reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing > > details > > > could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. > > > None of the other podlings reported about that. Having looked also at > the > > > board reports for January up to May 2015 I found that podlings > graduating > > > to TLP were either tasked by the board to establish a set of bylaws or > > not. > > > > > > This tells me that acceptance/incorporation of the code of conduct of > the > > > ASF by the podlings is not a requirement. > > > It might also mean - given the code of conduct as it is today - that > IPMC > > > members (as mentors) are either not fully aware that > > > acceptance/incorporation is part of incubation process, or that they > > > consider it optional. > > > > > > What I also observed from the board reports (minutes) from Jan till May > > is > > > that while graduating podlings (as part of their establisment as a TLP) > > > where tasked by the board to create a set of bylaws, that up to now > those > > > projects (Apache Whimsy, Apache Orc, Apache Parquet, Apache Aurora, > > Apache > > > Zest) don't reference anything about a set of bylaws. > > > And one graduating (Apache Samza) was not tasked with creating a set of > > > bylaws at all by the board. > > > > > > It seems to me that this viewpoint of flexibility for projects has led > to > > > various approaches applied during the incubation phase. Making it > harder > > to > > > tell a unified story to the outside world... > > > The Code of Conduct affects more the community aspect while being under > > the > > > umbrella of the ASF than the code aspect. The Code of Conduct and the > > > Apache Way (community over code) is foremost about how the contributors > > > interact. About how to do just to all contributors, not how to favour a > > > few.... > > > The bylaws of a project should reflect how that is done, meaning > defining > > > the rules regarding procedural matters (which culminates about how the > > > project deals with onboarding and ofboarding of contributors visavis > > > privileges - commit privileges, PMC, PMC Chair). > > > > > > And shouldn't the VP of the project report back to the board, in the > > > projects regular report, about the progress? And shouldn't the board > keep > > > track of what it has task the project to do, and/or check that a > > project's > > > bylaws doesn't conflict with the Code of Conduct or the Apache Way? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Pierre Smits > > > > > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > > > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > > > Based Manufacturing, Professional > > > Services and Retail & Trade > > > http://www.orrtiz.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz < > > > bdelacre...@apache.org > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > As there was no opposition I have modified the first few paragraphs > of > > > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html as below. > > > > > > > > -Bertrand > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz > > > > <bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > *** reworked code of conduct intro section *** > > > > > This code of conduct applies to all spaces managed by the Apache > > > > > Software Foundation, including IRC, all public and private mailing > > > > > lists, issue trackers, wikis, blogs, Twitter, and any other > > > > > communication channel used by our communities. A code of conduct > > which > > > > > is specific to in-person events (ie., conferences) is codified in > the > > > > > published ASF anti-harassment policy. > > > > > > > > > > We expect this code of conduct to be honored by everyone who > > > > > participates in the Apache community formally or informally, or > > claims > > > > > any affiliation with the Foundation, in any Foundation-related > > > > > activities and especially when representing the ASF, in any role. > > > > > > > > > > This code is not exhaustive or complete....(unchanged from here on) > > > > > *** reworked code of conduct intro section *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Pierre Smits > > > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > > Based Manufacturing, Professional > > Services and Retail & Trade > > http://www.orrtiz.com > > >
