Thank Hervé for being committer and Luke & Lei for helping review. I'll provide a list of pages to be translated with priority and timeline for your feedbacks before moving on to work on them.
Ted -----Original Message----- From: Luke Han [mailto:luke...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:43 PM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community There are many Chinese in ASF community who could help on this, We could engage them to help review. Count me as one:-) Thanks. Luke Best Regards! --------------------- Luke Han On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Lei Chang <chang.lei...@gmail.com> wrote: > I can do the review. > > Cheers > Lei Chang > > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> > wrote: > > > ok, I didn't catch you were not committer > > > > As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :) > > and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being > > committer: > > did you try? > > > > I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit > > after you submitted it, to check that the process works: I just > > won't be able to really review the content :) notice that I can > > check what result I get using an automatic translation > > service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try > > > > Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the > > content, > with > > Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese > > speaking people regarding contribution is ok? > > > > Regards, > > > > Hervé > > > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit : > > > Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a > > > committer > > of > > > comdev to review and to be able to edit the content. > > > > > Ted > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr] > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - > Apache > > > China Community > > > > > yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must > commit > > > > > > for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege. > > > > > > but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for > > > non-committers > to > > > easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself. > > This > > > FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be > > > translated > to > > > crowd-source translation :) > > > notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good > > > centent, > > he > > > could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code > > > TLP, > > but > > > general committer to have the commit bit to the site) > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Hervé > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ap > ache > > . > > > > > > org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd > .micro > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=soft.com&data=0 > > > 1%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f > > > 6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=XZJMH2WkSvxXV > > > O%2fkEMAGdKu0dzSwzggwEQkQ19JrPG0%3d > > %7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db > > > 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d > > > > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit : > > > > > > > The site content is public. We can get the designated content > > > > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, > > > > then send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > ________________________________ > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr> > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38 > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> > > > > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache > China > > > > Community > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to > > > > the OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache > > > > committer to > be > > > > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage > > > > people > will > > > > have to come from existing chinese > > > > > > speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a > > > patch > > > > > > > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the > > > > content > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Hervé > > > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done > > > > > the similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing > > > > > content and application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website > > > > > by our professional translators with Ross' guidance. One > > > > > question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community > > > > > in China? Our > KAIYUANSHE > > > > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading. > > > > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities > > > > > and > devs > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr> > > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11 > > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> > > > > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache > > > > > China Community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a > little > > > > > introduction on > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache. > > > > > org&da > > > > > t > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > %7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2 > > > > > f28e6 > > > > > a29 > > > > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn > > > > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced > > > > > from classical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailing list > > > > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do > > > > > anything about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't > > > > > think there > is > > > > > such a strong need for a french equivalent) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hervé > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm > > unit > > > > > y. > > > > > a > > > > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl% > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof > t.co&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d > 5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=I%2b6DxTuY > Vz1ip7uP1uYnBXa3KEtdJX0UzMmPmrozhTY%3d > > > > > m%7ca > > > > > 10f > > > > > > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1& > > > > > sdata > > > > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm > > unit > > > > > y. > > > > > a > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=pache.org&d > > > > > ata=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f > > > > > 8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata= > > > > > mnPUJ78cV5mYDC9ViG%2bYkuOmRStytqvgwgOut094Fe8%3d > %2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft. > > > > > com%7 > > > > > ca1 > > > > > > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c > > > > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas > > > > > > to start with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young > people > > > > > > to contribute.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we > > > > > > can also help from user experience side, such as pages in > > > > > > Chinese for mobile or a Wechat public account for news, > > > > > > blogs publishing or other services, and social interactions > > > > > > thru Wechat or QQ, such > as > > > > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > retweet and socialize great articles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus > > > > > > because it is used > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - > > > > > > Apache China Community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thinking more about it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine: > > > > > > - a few localized pages in > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach > > > > > > e.org& > > > > > > da > > > > > > t > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108 > > > > > > d2f26a > > > > > > c > > > > > > 9d7 > > > > > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N > > > > > > RyF45m > > > > > > p > > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + > > > > > > mailing list to interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in > > > > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can > > > > > > contact localized > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach > > > > > > e.org& > > > > > > da > > > > > > t > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108 > > > > > > d2f26a > > > > > > c > > > > > > 9d7 > > > > > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N > > > > > > RyF45m > > > > > > p > > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP > > > > > > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: > > > > > > it's about putting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in every TLP (starting with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&; 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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a. > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&; > > > > > > > da > > > > > > > ta > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2 > > > > > > > f2 > > > > > > > 6a > > > > > > > c9 > > > > > > > > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK > > > > > > > 79 > > > > > > > VJ > > > > > > > Yn > > > > > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach > > > > > > > e. > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > g > > > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2310 > > > > > > > 01 > > > > > > > 08 > > > > > > > d2 > > > > > > > > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI > > > > > > > Nl > > > > > > > LZ > > > > > > > Hj > > > > > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa > > > > > > > che.or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2 > > > > > > > 310010 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2 > > > > > > > MXsNqq > > > > > > > > > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown > > > > > > > text format, and should be relatively easy to get going > > > > > > > page by > page, > > > > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know > > > > > > > where to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of > > > > > > > work, especially since I think peer review is very > > > > > > > important, since language matters for policy and such. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa > > > > > > > che.or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2 > > > > > > > 310010 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2 > > > > > > > MXsNqq > > > > > > > > > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d > > > > > > > mailing lists. ch...@community.apache.org could be a > > > > > > > start, > and > > > > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a > > > > > > > Chinese WhatsApp-like > > > > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there > > > > > > > could > be > > > > > > > directed to ch...@community.apache.org, we would possibly > have a > > > > > > > semi-busy list from the start. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Niclas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu > > > > > > > <t...@microsoft.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe > crowdsourcing, > > > > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what > > > > > > > > contents > and > > > > > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com] > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China > > > > > > > > - Apache China Community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr] > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China > > > > > > > > - Apache China Community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with > China > > > > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested > > > > > > > > in > Open > > > > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and > cultural > > > > > > > > barriers for masses > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I > > > > > > > > read forming something completely separate, and > > > > > > > > eventually forming a separate > > > > > > > > TLP: > > > > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about creating localized content in > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f% > > > > > > > > 2fcomm > > > > > > > > un > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > y. > > > > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.co > > > > > > > > m > %7c3f > > > > > > > > 189780 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a87344 > > > > > > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat > > > > > > > > a=1Rvs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , > > > > > > > > pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing > > > > > > > > lists, focused on explaining community aspects, how to > > > > > > > > engage with Apache projects and to deal with the fact > > > > > > > > that Apache projects are > > done > > > > > > > > in english? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because I don't see: > > > > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP > > > > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in > english > > > > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english > language > > > > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to > > > > > > > > learn it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized > > > > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing > > > > > > > > lists, but not code) targeted at helping people work > > > > > > > > with other TLPs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WDYT? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hervé > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not > > happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and > elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What good thing is not happening? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What bad thing is happening? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu > > > > > > > > > > <t...@microsoft.com> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Niclas, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive > > > > > > > > > > discussion can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or > > > > > > > > > > stereotyping. > > > > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in > China > > > > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because > > > > > > > > > > there are strong demands here. > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be > instructed > > > > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of > > > > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, > > > > > > > > > > contributors, etc., > want > > > > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status > > > > > > > > > > quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good > > > > > > > > > > projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement > > > > > > > > > > of the local community/group will be mainly from the > > > > > > > > > > experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and > > > > > > > > > > contributors, who people will trust, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should > > > > > > > > > > already know how difficult it is to learn Chinese > > > > > > > > > > after living 4+ years in Shanghai. > > > > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the > > > > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group > > > > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in > > > > > > > > > > English, to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. > > > > > > > > > > Your ASF status and the fact of your location in > > > > > > > > > > Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust > > > > > > > > > > and effective communication to enable and motivate people's > > > > > > > > > > actions. > The > > > > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown > > > > > > > > > > that younger generation contributors would not tolerate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences > where > > > > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and > > > > > > > > > > the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. > > > > > > > > > > There are more than enough good codes and events > > > > > > > > > > (conferences, > > meetups, > > > > > > > > > > etc.) in China. > > The > > > > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way > > > > > > > > > > culture where the proposed China community/group can > > > > > > > > > > contribute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedh...@gmail.com] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in > > > > > > > > > > China > - > > > > > > > > > > Apache China Community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted, > > > > > > > > > > 2 things... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 > > > > > > > > > > and > > 2011. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of > > > > > > > > > > forming/creating organization. But the ASF and many > > > > > > > > > > other open source projects are not command&control > > > > > > > > > > driven top-down structures. So, there is very little > > > > > > > > > > "need" for "creation of communities". They either > > > > > > > > > > form, or they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at > > > > > > > > > > the Roadshow in Beijing grasped that idea very well, > > > > > > > > > > whereas the > > somewhat > > > > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of > > > > > > > > > > wanting > > to > > > > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a > > > > > > > > > > religious organization. I hope that you can > > > > > > > > > > appreciate the > difference > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly differently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a > > > > > > > > > > big barrier, but I have first hand witnessed the > > > > > > > > > > improvements in > online > > > > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous > > > > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where > > > > > > > > > > this > can > > be > > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where > > > > > > > > > > discussion, hacking, presentations are conducted, by > > > > > > > > > > the > participants, > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache > > doesn't > > > > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure > > > > > > > > > > many Apache contributors would be happy to > > > > > > > > > > participate, as peers, in > > such > > > > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off > > > > > > > > > > both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF > > > > > > > > > > and other projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small > > > > > > > > > > efforts, instead of single big one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Niclas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" > > > > > > > > > >> <t...@microsoft.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community > > > > > > > > > >> of Apache fans in China. Would a new China-specific > > > > > > > > > >> project at the ComDev be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > possible? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely > adopted > > in > > > > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, > > academic > > > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > > > >> public > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > services. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between > > > > > > > > > >> ASF > and > > > > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at > > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE ( > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu > > > > > > > > > >> an > > > > > > > > > >> sh > > > > > > > > > >> e. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> org > > > > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com > > %7cf7d98c2300844 > > > > > > > > > >> 57 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> b6ef > > > > > > > > > >> 408 > > > > > > > > > >> > > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr > > > > > > > > > >> 4C > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> J2iF > > > > > > > > > >> CsX > > > > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d< > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f > > > > > > > > > >> %2 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> fwww > > > > > > > > > >> .ka > > > > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl% > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8 > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d > > %7cf > > > > > > > > > >> 7d > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 98c2 > > > > > > > > > >> 300 > > > > > > > > > >> > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1 > > > > > > > > > >> &s > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> data =KN > > > > > > > > > >> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, > > the > > > > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to > promote > > > > > > > > > >> open > > > > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and > > > > > > > > > >> Asia > with > > > > > > > > > >> over > > > > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to > > > > > > > > > >> bridge > > the > > > > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS > > > > > > > > > >> communities, > > like > > > > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The > > > > > > > > > >> last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, > > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE, > thought > > > > > > > > > >> it'd > > > > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through > > > > > > > > > >> another roadshow in China. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE > > > > > > > > > >> was organized by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held > > > > > > > > > >> on Oct. 24-25 in > > Beijing > > > > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters > > > > > > > > > >> support, > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. > > > > > > > > > >> Aaron > Farr > > > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > > > >> Jason > > > > > > > > > >> Dai. > > > > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f > > > > > > > > > >> %2 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> fs.a > > > > > > > > > >> pac > > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl% > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8 > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d > > %7cf > > > > > > > > > >> 7d > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 98c2 > > > > > > > > > >> 300 > > > > > > > > > >> > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1 > > > > > > > > > >> &s > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> data > > > > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d< > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f > > > > > > > > > >> %2 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> fs.a > > > > > > > > > >> pac > > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl% > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8 > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d > > %7c4 > > > > > > > > > >> 07 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> aaa4 > > > > > > > > > >> b8a > > > > > > > > > >> > > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1 > > > > > > > > > >> &s > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> data =BX > > 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d > > > > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2 > > > > > > > > > >> f% > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw > > > > > > > > > >> itt > > > > > > > > > >> er.com > > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c > > > > > > > > > >> te > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> dl%4 > > > > > > > > > >> 006 > > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd > > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7 > > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir > > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d > > %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f > > > > > > > > > >> 98 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8 > > > > > > > > > >> 6f1 > > > > > > > > > >> > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09 > > > > > > > > > >> ik > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> WU37 > > > > > > > > > >> CWt > > > > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d< > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2 > > > > > > > > > >> f% > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw > > > > > > > > > >> itt > > > > > > > > > >> er.com > > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c > > > > > > > > > >> te > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> dl%4 > > > > > > > > > >> 006 > > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd > > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7 > > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir > > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d > > %7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f > > > > > > > > > >> 98 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8 > > > > > > > > > >> 6f1 > > > > > > > > > >> > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp > > > > > > > > > >> dC > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 7CWh > > > > > > > > > >> dX0 > > > > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d > > > > > > > > > >> - annou...@apache.org<mailto:annou...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > > >> (and > > > > > > > > > >> archives) > > > > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list > > > > > > > > > >> - > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f > > > > > > > > > >> %2 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> fapa > > > > > > > > > >> che > > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co > > > > > > > > > >> m > > %7cf7d98c > > > > > > > > > >> 23 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 0084 > > > > > > > > > >> 457 > > > > > > > > > >> > > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat > > > > > > > > > >> a= > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d< > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f > > > > > > > > > >> %2 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> fapa > > > > > > > > > >> che > > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co > > > > > > > > > >> m > > %7c407aaa > > > > > > > > > >> 4b > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 8a31 > > > > > > > > > >> 4f8 > > > > > > > > > >> > > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat > > > > > > > > > >> a= > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d> > > > > > > > > > >> home page > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous > > > > > > > > > >> requests > > to > > > > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ > > audience > > > > > > > > > >> who > > > > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people > > > > > > > > > >> who > > did > > > > > > > > > >> not > > > > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, > > > > > > > > > >> there already are many volunteers, including Apache > > > > > > > > > >> members, PMC > > members, > > > > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who > > > > > > > > > >> are willing to join the China community steering > > > > > > > > > >> committee and > working > > > > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and > > > > > > > > > >> community > in > > > > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China > > following > > > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > > > >> Apache way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community > > > > > > > > > >> of > > Apache > > > > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific > project > > at > > > > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Ted Liu > > > > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China > > Co-founding > > > > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
