Reminds me of the iOS LocalStorage (CDVLocalStorage plugin) bs that needed
to be handled - we definitely need a migration path (automatic hopefully)
if not users are in for a world of hurt...
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Tommy Williams <to...@devgeeks.org> wrote:
> +1
> On 12/12/2013 6:26 am, "Ian Clelland" <iclell...@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, it would definitely require some kind of migration support. Not
> > suggesting that this is something that we ever actually do, but we could
> > give developers a bit of code that automatically looks in both places,
> and
> > moves files to the new location on open. Or we do it under a flag that is
> > off for existing apps (off-on-upgrade) and only enabled-by-default for
> new
> > apps.
> >
> > I agree with you: this could cause worlds of pain, with developers, and
> > worse with users. We shouldn't take any steps in that direction without a
> > lot of very careful thought. For now, /Documents, sub-optimal though it
> may
> > be, is where Cordova puts persistent files.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Tommy Williams <to...@devgeeks.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Changing where PERSISTENT is located sounds like a very very bad idea.
> > >
> > > I know that would cause me personally a lot of grief with existing user
> > > data.
> > > On 11/12/2013 8:58 am, "Ian Clelland" <iclell...@chromium.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Michael Gauthier <
> > m...@silverorange.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 10/12/13 05:02 PM, Ian Clelland wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Yep.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think that Library is the more natural place for the HTML
> > persistent
> > > > >> filesystem, since it's used by an app for whatever persistent
> > storage
> > > it
> > > > >> needs, without exposing all of it's implementation details to the
> > > user.
> > > > >> (There's lots of room for debate on this, I'm sure)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The trouble is that we've historically used /Documents for
> > persistent
> > > > >> storage, and changing that will break apps.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm fine with a BC break, but I don't have to maintain any legacy
> > > > > applications. /Library does make more sense as the default for
> > > > PERSISTENT.
> > > > > The big problem with BC is for installed apps with existing data on
> > the
> > > > > filesystem, right?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Exactly. I'd hate for developers to update their plugins, and push a
> > new
> > > > version of their app that seems fine -- everything works great when
> you
> > > > start from scratch -- but users with existing data find themselves
> > > > completely locked out of it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > One idea is to allow something like requestFilesystem(DOCUMENT),
> in
> > > > >> addition to PERSISTENT and TEMPORARY. Another suggestion has been
> to
> > > add
> > > > >> extra arguments -- hints -- such as "{sync: true}", or maybe in
> this
> > > > case
> > > > >> "{purpose: documents}" to specify the attributes of the filesystem
> > > that
> > > > is
> > > > >> returned.
> > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > {sync: true} is a bit tricky because /Library/Cache is not synced
> but
> > > > > /Library/Application Data is synced. Having a DOCUMENT type would
> > match
> > > > > /tmp and /Library as the top-level dirs mapping to file-system
> > > constants.
> > > > >
> > > > > All my feedback is only from the iOS perspective though. Not sure
> if
> > > > these
> > > > > ideas make other platforms more or less complicated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Michael Gauthier <
> > > > m...@silverorange.com
> > > > >> >wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hmm.. The two directories have different defined roles on iOS and
> > > both
> > > > >>> are
> > > > >>> normal targets for applications to read/write files. Library is
> for
> > > > cache
> > > > >>> data or app-specific resources. Documents is for saving/loading
> > > actual
> > > > >>> things created by users within apps.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> See https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> > FileManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/FileSystemOverview/
> > > > >>> FileSystemOverview.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010672-CH2-SW14
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Supporting both should be a goal.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Cheers,
> > > > >>> Mike
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On 2013-12-10 14:39, Ian Clelland wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> If you could do that before, it was probably a bug :) (You
> > shouldn't
> > > > be
> > > > >>>> able to use getParent on the filesystem root, and the native
> code
> > > was
> > > > >>>> supposed to be checking for the correct path prefix before
> > allowing
> > > > >>>> access
> > > > >>>> to any files on the device)
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> At the moment, it's not possible to do that -- the filesystems
> > > should
> > > > be
> > > > >>>> properly isolated, and only allow access to correctly formed
> urls,
> > > > like
> > > > >>>> filesystem://localhost/persistent/some-file-here.txt.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> What we *can* do easily, though, is allow a new URL scheme for
> > > library
> > > > >>>> assets; something like filesystem://localhost/
> > > > >>>> library/some-file-here.txt,
> > > > >>>> and we can have a filesystem handler for those URLs. That'll
> work
> > if
> > > > >>>> your
> > > > >>>> use case is just "I need access to files in /Library", rather
> than
> > > "I
> > > > >>>> need
> > > > >>>> to get to them via string manipulation".
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I've also had some discussions about making /Library the default
> > > place
> > > > >>>> for
> > > > >>>> the persistent filesystem, and leaving /Documents either just
> for
> > > > legacy
> > > > >>>> apps, or making *that* the target of the special URL scheme.
> > That's
> > > a
> > > > >>>> proposal for a different day, though. There are some pretty big
> > > > >>>> backwards-compatibility issues there.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Michael Gauthier <
> > > > >>>> m...@silverorange.com
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Ian,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> With the new URLs will it be possible to write to both
> /Documents
> > > and
> > > > >>>>> /Library for iOS apps? In the old version, the filesystem root
> > > > resolved
> > > > >>>>> as
> > > > >>>>> /Documents but it was possible to get to /Library by navigating
> > the
> > > > the
> > > > >>>>> parent dir.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>>> Mike
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On 2013-11-15 15:19, Ian Clelland wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:40 PM, purplecabbage <
> > > > >>>>> purplecabb...@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Considering the magnitude of the changes I would have
> > expected
> > > > that
> > > > >>>>>> this
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> was just a new file plugin. The previous version was based
> on a
> > > > spec,
> > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>> if we are deviating from it we should probably maintain both,
> > and
> > > > >>>>>>> possibly
> > > > >>>>>>> even make a recommendation to the w3c.
> > > > >>>>>>> I hope we at least do a major version update for this if APIs
> > > have
> > > > >>>>>>> changed.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Yes, definitely a major version bump, at least so that devs
> > > > aren't
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> caught
> > > > >>>>>> by the URL-format-change.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> There aren't any changes to external APIs; I've been very
> > careful
> > > to
> > > > >>>>>> maintain conformance with the existing tests, except where
> those
> > > > tests
> > > > >>>>>> have
> > > > >>>>>> been for undocumented implementation details. The only
> > app-visible
> > > > >>>>>> change
> > > > >>>>>> is that URLs returned by the .toURL() method will look like
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> filesystem://localhost/persistent/my/file.jpg
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> rather than
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> file:///var/mobile/Applications/<app id>/Documents/my/file.jpg
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We are still following the spec -- in fact, this brings us
> > closer
> > > in
> > > > >>>>>> line
> > > > >>>>>> with the W3C File API spec, on these points:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/file-system-api/#widl-Entry-fullPath --
> > The
> > > > >>>>>> fullPath
> > > > >>>>>> of an entry should be the path from the root (of the HTML
> > > > filesystem,
> > > > >>>>>> not
> > > > >>>>>> the underlying device file system).
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/file-system-api/#widl-Entry-toURL-DOMString--
> > > > >>>>>> This
> > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>> a note, rather than a requirement, but a filesystem url scheme
> > is
> > > > >>>>>> mentioned
> > > > >>>>>> there.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We're considering extending the spec in one way, which should
> be
> > > > >>>>>> compatible
> > > > >>>>>> with the spirit of the spec, and backwards-compatible with the
> > > > >>>>>> previous
> > > > >>>>>> API. That is the ability to declare new filesystem types,
> beyond
> > > > >>>>>> "temporary" and "persistent", so that we can access things
> like
> > > > device
> > > > >>>>>> media and app bundle assets using the same APIs that we use
> for
> > > > >>>>>> accessing
> > > > >>>>>> user-defined files. If we're happy with the way that works,
> then
> > > we
> > > > >>>>>> should
> > > > >>>>>> definitely propose it for inclusion in the standard (not the
> > > > specific
> > > > >>>>>> filesystems, perhaps, but the mechanism for requesting and
> > > > interacting
> > > > >>>>>> with
> > > > >>>>>> them)
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Ian
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 8:36 AM, Ian Clelland <
> > > > iclell...@chromium.org
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I've created CB-5403 as the über-ticket for this; various
> bits
> > > of
> > > > it
> > > > >>>>>>>> are
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> subtasks.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Once I have the tests and the JS updated, then platform
> owners
> > > can
> > > > >>>>>>>> take
> > > > >>>>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>>> look and see whether they have anything to do to support
> their
> > > own
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> schemes.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> As general guidelines, I would say:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> * If you can intercept filesystem://* URLs in native code,
> and
> > > > >>>>>>>> return
> > > > >>>>>>>> arbitrary responses, then do it! It will let your platform
> > > support
> > > > >>>>>>>> new
> > > > >>>>>>>> filesystems in the future as we come up with them. Add a
> > couple
> > > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> subtasks
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> for CB-5403 for your platform and go.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> * If you can't do that, but you *can* provide access to
> things
> > > > like
> > > > >>>>>>>> media
> > > > >>>>>>>> through special urls, then try that! You should be able to
> > > create
> > > > a
> > > > >>>>>>>> FileSystem object that uses that URL as its root, and
> > everything
> > > > >>>>>>>> should
> > > > >>>>>>>> work. Add a subtask for that, and see what you can do.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> * If you can't do that either, and you just want to stick
> with
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> file:///
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> urls that we are currently using, then don't do anything;
> > > nothing
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> should
> > > > >>>>>>>> change for you.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Ian Clelland <
> > > > >>>>>>>> iclell...@chromium.org
> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Marcel Kinard <
> > > > >>>>>>>> cmarc...@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Ian, will there be changes that app developers will need
> > to
> > > > do?
> > > > >>>>>>>>> If
> > > > >>>>>>>>> so,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> those should be clearly documented in a migration guide.
> If
> > > not,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> sounds
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> like the [improved] tests should pass on both the old and
> > new
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> versions,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> which would be sweet.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The filesystem URLs themselves will change as a result of
> > > this.
> > > > >>>>>>>>> The
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> tests
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> should pass on both old and new versions, but the tests
> mint
> > > > their
> > > > >>>>>>> own
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> URLs
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> for testing against -- each version is internally
> consistent,
> > > but
> > > > >>>>>>> if
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> an
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> app
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> is saving internal URLs and tries to dereference an old
> > > > (file:///)
> > > > >>>>>>> url
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> with
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> the new plugin, it will probably not resolve.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Maybe there's a transition path here -- it might be
> possible
> > to
> > > > >>>>>>>>> allow
> > > > >>>>>>>>> window.resolveLocalFileSystemURL to access files with the
> old
> > > > URL,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> but
> > > > >>>>>>>>> never actually generate URLs.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> That would mean that
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> (resolveLocalFileSystemURL(a)).toURL() !== a,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> but I don't think that we depend on that as an identity.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Is there work which needs to be done on the other platforms
> > > (BB,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> WP8,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Win8, FFOS, etc) so that those platforms don't get left
> > > behind?
> > > > >>>>>>>>> If
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> so,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> would it make sense to reach out to those platform owners
> > and
> > > at
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> least
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> get
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Jira items created with some notes?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Yes. I'm going to create a ticket for this, and we can
> add
> > > > >>>>>>>>> platform-specific tasks to it.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Other platforms shouldn't *have* to do anything, and some
> > > > platforms
> > > > >>>>>>>>> *can't* do anything, because they cannot access anything
> > other
> > > > than
> > > > >>>>>>>>> file:/// urls anyway.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> However, if the other platforms want to get in on the
> > goodness,
> > > > and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> start
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> supporting their own URL schemes (I think the BB folks can
> > use
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> something
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> like local:// for their filesystem access), then that'll be
> > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> place
> > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>> keep everything organized.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> I'll post back once I have that issue set up.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Ian
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Sounds like you've built some very significant
> > improvements.
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:29 AM, Ian Clelland <
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> iclell...@chromium.org
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> After working with the File plugin for a week or so, I've
> > > gotten
> > > > >>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> more or
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> less where I want it to be on iOS, and am working
> through
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Android.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Looking
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> at the end result, though, I expect that over 90% of the
> > > code
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> has
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> been
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> touched in some way. (It's a huge diff.)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
