No problem. I hope it wasn't too much of a rant. It's just that CouchDB is an awesome project, but, I am not sure other new comers will be as persistent as I have.
Once I wrap up my first CouchDB deployment in a few days, I will contribute some helpful information to the Wiki. I have editing privileges as of yesterday. If anyone wants to give me word on whether Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint is the route I should go for Android, I would appreciate it! Still trying to figure this out! ;) Jonathan Porta On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Noah Slater <nsla...@tumbolia.org> wrote: > Thank you for this Jonathan, it has been very helpful for me. I've flagged > the email and I'll review it again when I'm putting together a plan for the > new website. > > The wiki, as always, could do with some love. If you have a bit of spare > time, it would be cool if you could fix up any of the things you think are > confusing. Just let me know your account and I'll give you edit access. > > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Jonathan Porta <rurd...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Roger, thanks for posting that! >> >> Being new to this community, I have spent more time confused than any >> other time I have picked up a new technology. The confusion primary >> stems from the multitude of Couchbase products that everyone talks >> about, coupled with the fact that (seemingly) all of the online >> content about CouchDB was written by people who now work at Couchbase. >> >> The difference in appeal between Couchbase's website and CouchDB's >> website is huge. My initial thoughts were that CouchDB was mostly >> abandoned as an Apache project, and that Couchbase was leading the >> charge in further development. This misconception lead me to wasting >> a lot of time with Couchbase Server, only to find out that everything >> I just learned in the two O'Reilly books I just bought was mostly >> wrong, as it did not apply to CouchDB. Basically, Couchbase Server is >> Membase with a confusing name. >> >> Recovering from that mistake, I then stumble across Damien's blog post >> about "The future of CouchDB: Couchbase". At this point, I am ready >> to give up. I have spent days trying to figure out a new technology >> that sounds incredible, but, I have not had any success. >> >> To further show how hard it was to get to where I am now, here is how >> I started down this road: >> >> I easily found this talk done by J. Chris Anderson: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9C2x54Of-M >> >> This got me pretty excited about the mobile CouchDB offering, yet, I >> couldn't find much more information until I just Googled "J. Chris >> Anderson CouchDB". This is how I discovered Couchbase, the company. >> Seeing that J. Chris works there, I assumed Couchbase Server was a >> distribution of CouchDB. I was wrong. In the past when I have had >> issues like this, it is usually cleared up by reading through the >> Wikipedia articles on the subject. As of the last time I checked, the >> articles on Wikipedia were not very helpful in understanding the >> differences between Couchone, Couchbase, CouchDB, CouchApp, Couchbase >> Single Server, Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint, etc. >> >> Here is the internal dialog going on in my head: >> >> I finally found what I *think* might be the coveted CouchDB Android: >> http://www.couchbase.com/wiki/display/couchbase/Couchbase+Mobile+Syncpoint >> >> Stop right there! There are two different products on that page? >> Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint and TouchDB. >> >> TouchDB sounds like it is even further away from CouchDB, so I am not >> going to look at that. At least the Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint has >> the word Couch in it, so, maybe that is what I want? Though, I just >> wasted a bunch of time with Couchbase Server, so I am a little weary >> of looking at something with the Couchbase name stuck on it. I know >> it doesn't work with CouchDB, and doesn't have a REST API. Again, I >> was wrong! I guess Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint is compatible with >> CouchDB, according to the Couchbase HTTP API Documentation (Am I >> missing the joke here?) >> >> I end up on this page: >> http://www.couchbase.com/wiki/display/couchbase/Android - All is going >> well until I see "Couchbase HTTP API Reference" - >> http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-api/index.html - Couchbase >> doesn't have an HTTP API...I click that link. The title says: >> "Couchbase", yet, the rest of the document says "CouchDB" It's like a >> case of find+replace gone wrong. So... Is this the API for Couchbase, >> CouchDB, or Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint? Where is the API for >> Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint, that was, after all, the product page I >> was just on. The document never mentions Syncpoint. >> >> The CouchDB Wiki isn't much help either. Here is the first thing I >> see on the Android page: "These instructions are outdated" So, I >> follow the link - >> https://github.com/couchbase/Android-Couchbase-SourceBuild - there are >> no instructions on how to use this. No links to instructions. At >> this point, I am starting to think that maybe everyone just gave up on >> the Android port. Why can I find loads of posts, videos, etc from >> 2010 talking about how awesome CouchDB Mobile will be, but nothing in >> recent months? Yep, CouchDB on Android must be dead. >> >> I keep searching and eventually find a link to this page: >> http://www.couchbase.com/products-and-services/mobile-couchbase. >> Unfortunately, both the links to the mobile versions are broken. It >> just takes me to the homepage. At this point, I posted the >> aforementioned SO question. >> >> Other Issues that may or may not dissuade a newcomer: >> - The Fedora package in the Repo is version 1.0.2-7 >> - Downloads page does not indicate what you are downloading...source >> or binary? It's source, but I had to download the tar file to know for >> sure. >> - Binaries would be nice to offer, especially for Windows. >> - The Wiki could benefit from some serious TLC. Do we really need a >> build guide for every OS? It seems that maintaining two or three >> always up-to-date build/install guides would be more beneficial than >> lots of guides that may or may not be up-to-date. >> - The CouchDB homepage needs an attention grabbing...something, to >> showcase to potential developers why CouchDB is awesome. Redis and >> Node.js seem to do a better job at this, maybe some ideas can come >> from their approach. >> >> </rant> >> >> It all boils down to: >> >> 1. How can I incorporate CouchDB into my Android project, and >> replicate with a CouchDB instance elsewhere? >> >> 2. What can I do to help CouchDB make things easier for someone like >> me to adopt CouchDB? More specifically, what is there that the >> project team would allow me to help with in this area? >> >> I really really like the CouchDB project, but, I can't see how it will >> continue to be a viable solution if newcomers to the technology >> encounter issues similar to what I have encountered. >> >> >> Jonathan Porta >> >> PO BOX 21365 >> Billings, MT 59104 >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 9:58 AM, <roger.moff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I think this question on stack overflow expresses a lot of the >> > confusion in the marketplace about the current direction of couchdb. I >> > hope you'll forgive me posting this to the dev group, but as a couch >> > evangelist myself, I share Jonathan's pain. >> > >> > >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9343868/confused-on-how-to-use-couchdb-on-android >> > >> > I am feeling a bit more confident about the future of couchdb having >> > seen the activity in this forum over the past week. However I feel, >> > looking from the outside in, that the project does have a perception >> > problem. >> > >> > The problem I think largely stems from the fact that there is nothing >> > on this page that reflects the online discussions that arose following >> > Damien's departure. >> > >> > http://couchdb.apache.org/ >> > >> > So when you are searching for information on couchdb, you tend to see >> > a very stale project page, and then lots of much more recent online >> > posts elsewhere asking if couch is dead now that the founder has left. >> > >> > I know there is a lot of sensible and sane discussion on other blogs, >> > but I really feel that the apache couchdb pages need to address the >> > matter head on and inform the community better as to the future. >> > >> > As an aside, the decision to rebrand membase as couchbase has, in my >> > opinion, done untold damage. This is the real issue behind the >> > confusion and is something I think the couchdb project needs to work >> > on. >> > >> > I'm happy to help where I can ... I love couch and use it as the >> > backend for many of my mobile projects. Having a restful database that >> > talks JSON is such a perfect fit for so many applications that really, >> > couchdb should be storming ahead of other nosql options and yet I find >> > myself having to work harder and harder to justify its use over (say) >> > mongo. The reason I am having to work harder is purely a perception >> > problem and hence I feel this is the area that needs a bit more work! >> > >> > All that said, I'm so glad I joined the dev group last week, it's >> > given me a lot more confidence that things are moving in a positive >> > direction ... >> > >> > Roger >>
