see inline please ... On 30 October 2014 00:48, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kxe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is > > the right way to handle problems? > > I'm not too worried about offending people. My concern here is about > the image we project to the outside world. I want to send the message > that we're an inclusive, welcoming group of people. Evidently, some > people are looking at the logo, seeing something that some of us have > not seen before, and thinking "hmm, doesn't seem like I belong there." > > > Are you sure that removing a relaxed > > person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? > > It's our logo. I think we can remove the dude from it fairly harmlessly. :) > > > Changing color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street. > > Good point. > > > I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now > > since it isn't broken, people likes it > > Actually, what started this thread was a number of individuals feeling > comfortable enough to speak to Joan about their perception of our > logo. One which I now share. So I'd say it is broken, and needs > fixing. > > > and there is no urgency on this > > There is some urgency here. 2.0 is our best shot at a successful rebrand. > > > We have more important issues to work on. > > Please don't derail this effort. We're not all required to work on the > same thing. Other people are free to continue working on whatever part > of the project interests them. > > On 29 October 2014 23:12, Alexander Shorin <kxe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > We already did: no serious issues were found, people likes current > > one > > That's not the view I have of this thread. It seems to me like there > was a broad consensus that we look into this. > > > Also moving this proposal out of community-driven users@ to developers > > specific ML is not fair since you strips the feedback of significant > > part of our users. > > users@ is a support forum for end-users of CouchDB. It's not the > appropriate place to solicit feedback on (potentially controversial) > rebranding efforts. It was already turning into a bit of a peanut > gallery type thing. > +1 > On 29 October 2014 22:57, Andy Wenk <andyw...@apache.org> wrote: > > > Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the > man > > from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about > starting > > a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community > > choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to > > decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ... > > Seems to me like the obvious approach. But I'm also very interested to > see what Sean comes up with. So thanks for that, Joan! > > Yes definitely - super cool from Joan. I would have liked to ask our Designer as well but I am afraid they can't find a timeslot .... > On 29 October 2014 23:12, Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org> wrote: > > FYI after the multiple suggestions we have someone competent look at > > logo design, I've asked Sean Barclay, lead UX at Cloudant, to have his > > team look at working up some possible logo ideas. They have the talent > > that we don't, and the interest in exploring new designs. They've also > > been working up some colour designs and schemes for Fauxton, so it can't > > hurt to have this work done in the same scope. Sounds like they'll have > > time to look at it starting next week. > > > > Obviously we are under no obligation to accept anything they do. But it > > can't hurt to have them explore it. > > > > -Joan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Wenk" <andyw...@apache.org> > > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:57:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo > > > > Alex, > > > > it is a serious topic and it should be discussed. I am against taking it > to > > the side. I know there are many other topics the community is working on. > > But this is important also. > > > > Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the > man > > from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about > starting > > a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community > > choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to > > decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ... > > > > The winner would receive the honour to be the creator of the new CouchDB > > logo and would be mentioned prominently. > > > > What do others think about this idea? > > > > Cheers > > > > Andy > > > > On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kxe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is > >> the right way to handle problems? Are you sure that removing a relaxed > >> person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? Changing > >> color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street. > >> > >> I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now > >> since it isn't broken, people likes it and there is no urgency on > >> this. We have more important issues to work on. > >> > >> -- > >> ,,,^..^,,, > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> > wrote: > >> > Hi folks! > >> > > >> > (Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.) > >> > > >> > CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it > >> > if we want to make changes. > >> > > >> > I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But > >> > that's because I'm attached to our brand. > >> > > >> > It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him. > >> > (It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we > >> > adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to > >> > mention that he is white. > >> > > >> > So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually > >> > suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this > >> > certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we > >> > want to build going forward. > >> > > >> > I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is > >> > good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a > >> > fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an > >> > evolution of our brand as well as our product. > >> > > >> > I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to > >> > differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that > >> > they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer > >> > in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;) > >> > > >> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I > >> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important > >> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a > >> > big will be expensive. > >> > > >> > Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive > >> > change though. > >> > > >> > On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <jason.h.sm...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What > >> exactly > >> >> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript > have > >> >> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they > can > >> >> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on > the > >> >> server. > >> >> > >> >> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to > >> >> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people > >> >> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan > >> would > >> >> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she > >> has a > >> >> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see. > >> >> > >> >> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about > >> the > >> >> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is > doing > >> >> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and > >> that is > >> >> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a > >> >> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing. > >> >> > >> >> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine > >> with > >> >> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep > the > >> >> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put > a > >> >> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been > discussed > >> >> before, there are some good arguments.) > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of > "relax." > >> >>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to > think > >> of > >> >>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about > >> >>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not > for > >> the > >> >>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what? > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 > >> >>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the > >> person]Bryan > >> >>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting > just > >> to > >> >>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli > >> >>> > >> >>> From: Bryan Green <dbryan.gr...@gmail.com> > >> >>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org> > >> >>> Cc: u...@couchdb.apache.org > >> >>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM > >> >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo > >> >>> ------------------------------ > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person > >> altogether > >> >>> and have some sort of stylized couch. > >> >>> > >> >>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone" > >> >>> > >> >>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org> > >> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON > 2014, > >> >>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people > >> >>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo > >> looks > >> >>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put > it, > >> >>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over." > >> >>> > > >> >>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over > drinks > >> - > >> >>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB > and > >> >>> > its image in the open source community. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the > >> >>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > As a reminder here is our current logo: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Or in SVG: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that > keeps > >> the > >> >>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the > >> pose > >> >>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, > >> naturally, > >> >>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least > objections. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I > can't > >> >>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If > you're an > >> >>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo > in > >> >>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/ > >> >>> > > >> >>> > -Joan > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Noah Slater > >> > https://twitter.com/nslater > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Andy Wenk > > Hamburg - Germany > > RockIt! > > > > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588 > > > > https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc > > > > -- > Noah Slater > https://twitter.com/nslater > -- Andy Wenk Hamburg - Germany RockIt! GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
