Hi Weijie,

Thanks for the link. I’d seen this project a bit earlier, along with Apollo 
[1]. Sparrow is quite interesting, but is designed to place tasks (processes) 
on available nodes. This is not quite what Drill does: Drill launches multiple 
waves of “fragments” to all nodes across the cluster.

Other systems take the approach of just-in-time scheduling in which a fragment 
starts only when its inputs are available, and terminates (and releases its 
resources) after it has processed its last row. While this may be a very good 
technique for longer-running tasks (something like map/reduce or Hive), it 
introduces too much latency for short-running, interactive queries.

One could argue that Drill needs two levels of scheduling:

1. Schedule queries as a whole.
2. Schedule tasks (“minor fragments”) within queries.

(There is, of course, a third level: scheduling the Drillbits themselves. Let’s 
leave that aside for now.)

The simplest place to start in Drill is to schedule entire queries, where each 
query gets a slice of cluster-wide resources (memory, CPU, etc.) Then, we can 
reuse Drill’s existing mechanism to schedule fragments on nodes.

The next level of refinement is to select the proper level of parallelization 
for a query: a balance between maximizing width, but not overwhelming the 
cluster with too many threads. For truly huge queries (dozens of nested 
subqueries), it might even make sense to introduce a way of sharing threads 
across fragments (something that Hanifi looked into a while back) or staging 
queries so that we don’t try to run all stages simultaneously. These are more 
advanced topics.

A good place to start would be a scheduler; with a model somewhat like YARNs, 
that selects queries to run when Drill resources are available; then to ensure 
that queries run within those resources.

Anyone know of such a schedule we could borrow to use with Drill? Or maybe we 
could adopt the core of Sparrow (or whatever) with the algorithm needed for 
Drill to avoid the need to invent yet another new scheduler.

Thanks,

- Paul


[1] 
https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/osdi14/osdi14-paper-boutin_0.pdf

On Aug 23, 2017, at 7:41 AM, weijie tong 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

@paul  have you noticed the Sparrow project (
https://github.com/radlab/sparrow ) and related paper mentioned in the
github .  Sparrow is a non-central ,low latency scheduler . This seems meet
Drill's demand. I think we can first abstract a scheduler interface like
what Spark does , then we can have different scheduler implementations
(central or non-central ,maybe non-central like sparrow be the default one
).

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:51 PM, weijie tong 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:

Thanks for all your suggestions.

@paul your analysis is impressive . I agree with  your opinion. Current
queue solution can not solve this problem perfectly. Our system is
suffering a  hard time once the cluster is in high load. I will think about
this more deeply. welcome more ideas or suggestions to  be shared in this
thread,maybe some little improvement .


On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 4:06 AM Paul Rogers 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Hi Weijie,

Great analysis. Let’s look at a few more data points.

Drill has no central scheduler (this is a feature: it makes the cluster
much easier to manage and has no single point of failure. It was probably
the easiest possible solution while Drill was being built.) Instead of
central control, Drill is based on the assumption of symmetry: all
Drillbits are identical. So, each Foreman, acting independently, should try
to schedule its load in a way that evenly distributes work across nodes in
the cluster. If all Drillbits do the same, then load should be balanced;
there should be no “hot spots.”

Note, for this to work, Drill should either own the cluster, or any other
workload on the cluster should also be evenly distributed.

Drill makes another simplification: that the cluster has infinite
resources (or, equivalently, that the admin sized the cluster for peak
load.) That is, as Sudheesh puts it, “Drill is optimistic” Therefore, Drill
usually runs with no throttling mechanism to limit overall cluster load. In
real clusters, of course, resources are limited and either a large query
load, or a few large queries, can saturate some or all of the available
resources.

Drill has a feature, seldom used, to throttle queries based purely on
number. These ZK-based queues can allow, say, 5 queries to run (each of
which is assumed to be evenly distributed.) In actual fact, the ZK-based
queues recognize that typical workload have many small, and a few large,
queries and so Drill offers the “small query” and “large query” queues.

OK, so that’s where we are today. I think I’m not stepping too far out of
line to observe that the above model is just a bit naive. It does not take
into consideration the available cores, memory or disk I/Os. It does not
consider the fact that memory has a hard upper limit and must be managed.
Drill creates one thread for each minor fragment limited by the number of
cores. But, each query can contain dozens or more fragments, resulting in
far, far more threads per query than a node has cores. That is, Drill’s
current scheduling model does not consider that, above a certain level,
adding more threads makes the system slower because of thrashing.

You propose a closed-loop, reactive control system (schedule load based
on observed load on each Drillbit.) However, control-system theory tells us
that such a system is subject to oscillation. All Foremen observe that a
node X is loaded so none send it work. Node X later finishes its work and
becomes underloaded. All Foremen now prefer node X and it swings back to
being overloaded. In fact, Impala tried an open-loop design and there is
some evidence in their documentation that they hit these very problems.

So, what else could we do? As we’ve wrestled with these issues, we’ve
come to the understanding that we need an open-loop, predictive solution.
That is a fancy name for what YARN or Mesos does: keep track of available
resources, reserve them for a task, and monitor the task so that it stays
within the resource allocation. Predict load via allocation rather than
reacting to actual load.

In Drill, that might mean a scheduler which looks at all incoming queries
and assigns cluster resources to each; queueing the query if necessary
until resources become available. It also means that queries must live
within their resource allocation. (The planner can help by predicting the
likely needed resources. Then, at run time, spill-to-disk and other
mechanisms allow queries to honor the resource limits.)

The scheduler-based design is nothing new: it seems to be what Impala
settled on, it is what YARN does for batch jobs, and it is a common pattern
in other query engines.

Back to the RPC issue. With proper scheduling, we limit load on each
Drillbit so that RPC (and ZK heartbeats) can operate correctly. That is,
rather than overloading a node, then attempting to recover, we wish instead
to manage to load to prevent the overload in the first place.

A coming pull request will take a first, small, step: it will allocate
memory to queries based on the limit set by the ZK-based queues. The next
step is to figure out how to limit the number of threads per query. (As
noted above, a single large query can overwhelm the cluster if, say, it
tries to do 100 subqueries with many sorts, joins, etc.) We welcome
suggestions and pointers to how others have solved the problem.

We also keep tossing around the idea of introducing that central
scheduler. But, that is quite a bit of work and we’ve hard that users seem
to have struggles with maintaining the YARN and Impala schedulers, so we’re
somewhat hesitant to move away from a purely symmetrical configuration.
Suggestions in this area are very welcome.

For now, try turning on the ZK queues to limit concurrent queries and
prevent overload. Ensure your cluster is sized for your workload. Ensure
other work on the cluster is also symmetrical and doe not compete with
Drill for resources.

And, please continue to share your experiences!

Thanks,

- Paul

On Aug 20, 2017, at 5:39 AM, weijie tong 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:

HI all:

Drill's current schedule policy seems a little simple. The
SimpleParallelizer assigns endpoints in round robin model which ignores
the
system's load and other factors. To critical scenario, some drillbits
are
suffering frequent full GCs which will let their control RPC blocked.
Current assignment will not exclude these drillbits from the next coming
queries's assignment. then the problem will get worse .
I propose to add a zk path to hold bad drillbits. Forman will recognize
bad drillbits by waiting timeout (timeout of  control response from
intermediate fragments), then update the bad drillbits path. Next coming
queries will exclude these drillbits from the assignment list.
How do you think about it or any suggests ? If sounds ok ,will file a
JIRA and give some contributes.



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