Mohammed is correct. However, there is really no functional limit. The
customer owes what the customer owes... often by accident. Much of the
driver of the "force" post is just that... it is not anticipated with
forethought... and it is a forcepost.
Great discussion.
On 2/5/2026 10:06 AM, Mohammed Saifulhuq wrote:
Hi Alberto,
That is an interesting approach, but I see a few architectural risks
with a 'Pending Transaction' model versus a true 'Negative Balance'
model for this specific use case:
Regulatory Reality: When a 'Force Post' occurs (e.g., a tax levy or
regulatory fee), the liability is often immediate. The customer is in
debt to the bank at that exact second. Keeping the balance at 0 and
hiding the debt in a 'pending' state might misrepresent the actual
General Ledger (GL) position of the bank.
Interest Calculation: If the account is effectively overdrawn, the
bank usually needs to accrue interest on that debt immediately.
Fineract's existing interest engine handles negative balances
(overdrafts) naturally. If we use a 'pending' queue, we would need to
rebuild the interest calculation logic to look at the 'shadow'
balance, which adds significant complexity.
Complexity on Deposit: Your approach requires a new event listener on
every deposit to 'sweep' the pending queue. This introduces
concurrency challenges.
I believe the 'Negative Balance with Limits' approach stays closer to
standard GAAP/IFRS accounting principles where a liability is
recognized immediately on the ledger.
Thoughts?
Best,
Mohammed Saifulhuq
On Thu, 5 Feb, 2026, 9:27 pm Jose Alberto Hernandez,
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hello!
I would like to propose a more robust method:
1. Keep the Savings Account as is, don't update the allowed
overdraft or something else,
2. Generate a new transaction type that will be applied once the
account has some balance, this can be added to the Savings Account
with a new command
3. Include a new Balance amount, similar as we have now,
totalBalance amount and available amount, to include those
transactions, this new balance usually will be negative when the
Savings Account has these transactions to be applied
The idea of this new transaction type is to record the different
pending stuff to be applied the next time the account has some deposit
What do you think?
Thanks and regards
Alberto
On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 8:09 PM Mohammed Saifulhuq
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Anu and Campbell,
This is a critical feature for regulatory compliance,
especially for institutions handling automated service charges
or tax deductions where rejecting the debit is not a legal option.
I agree with Anu's architectural approach, particularly
separating this into a distinct API command
(withdrawal-force-post). Mixing this logic into the standard
withdrawal flow could create dangerous loopholes where
overdrafts happen accidentally.
One additional consideration:
If we enable allow-negative-balance, we should also consider
if this requires a 'Limit' configuration (e.g., 'Max Overdraft
Amount'). Allowing infinite negative balance might pose a risk
if a force-post API is abused or looped.
I am happy to pick up the implementation of the Global
Configuration and the Permission structure if we have
consensus on the design.
Best,
Mohammed Saifulhuq
On Thu, 5 Feb, 2026, 6:08 am Anu Omotayo via dev,
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
I had a similar discussion with my colleague on savings
account with negative balance about two weeks ago. The ask
was to debit customer savings accounts for regulatory
reasons even if the account balance is 0.
Also, I had a negative balance in my account with a
commercial bank days ago due to a bank charge that I
wasn't expecting.
Below is a suggestion on how I think this feature can be
implemented in fineract.
1. An "allow-negative-balance-on-savings-account" can be
added to the global configuration to enable/disable this
feature.
2. It should be implemented as a separate API due to its
sensitive nature e.g (e.g
~/fineract-provider/api/v1/savingsaccounts/14/transactions?command=withdrawal-force-post).
The "allow-negative-balance-on-savings-account" setting
should be checked before the transaction is posted.
3. New permissions such as WITHDRAW SAVINGSACCOUNT FORCE
DEBIT, WITHDRAW SAVINGSACCOUNT FORCE DEBIT CHECKER should
be created and used for the new API.
Regards
Anu Omotayo
On Sunday, January 11, 2026 at 01:12:07 AM GMT+1, Campbell
Burgess <[email protected]> wrote:
Paul.... Very well laid out. Thank you.
Bottom line... negative consumer deposit (savings accounts
in Fineract) routinely go negative, with and without,
formal arrangements and with (but also without) account
holder opt-in.
If what I am now guessing is correct, that Fineract does
not readily support a force-post, what is the best path
forward.
Again, we are happy to do all the lifting and contribute
the work product to the community, of course, expecting
independent review and oversight.
Campbell
On 1/10/2026 10:37 AM, Paul wrote:
*Regulation E (Electronic Fund Transfers):* For one-time
debit card and ATM transactions, banks cannot charge an
overdraft fee unless the consumer has explicitly *opted
in*. However, even without an opt-in, a bank is legally
permitted to pay the transaction (creating a negative
balance) as long as it does *not* charge a fee.
--
Herring BANCORP®
*C. Campbell Burgess
*President/CEO
Office: (806) 373-3921 | Direct: (806) 242-3704
[email protected]
*Herring Bancorp*
2201 Civic Circle, Suite 1000
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/2201+Civic+Circle,+Suite+1000+%0D%0A++++++++++++Amarillo,+TX+79109?entry=gmail&source=g>
Amarillo, TX 79109
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/2201+Civic+Circle,+Suite+1000+%0D%0A++++++++++++Amarillo,+TX+79109?entry=gmail&source=g>
www.herringbank.com <http://www.herringbank.com>
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Herring BANCORP®
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*President/CEO
Office: (806) 373-3921 | Direct: (806) 242-3704
[email protected]
*Herring Bancorp*
2201 Civic Circle, Suite 1000
Amarillo, TX 79109
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