Hi,

I'm afraid of the migration cost to only github issues and lack of many
features that we are currently using. That would be very disruptive and
annoying. For me github issues are far worse compared to using the Jira.

I would strongly prefer Option 1. over the others. Option 4 I would like
the least. I would be fine with Option 3, and Option 2 but assuming that
Jira would stay the source of truth.
For option 2, maybe we could have a bot that would backport/copy user
created issues in github to Jira (and link them together)? Discussions
could still happen in the github, but we could track all of the issues as
we are doing right now. Bot could also sync it the other way around (like
marking tickets closed, affected/fixed versions etc).

Best,
Piotrek

czw., 27 paź 2022 o 07:48 Martijn Visser <martijnvis...@apache.org>
napisał(a):

> Hi,
>
> We have to keep in mind that if a users asks for a new Jira account, that
> person will need to provide its email address which is the Flink PMC
> processing personal identifiable information. There needs to be a careful
> process for that and to be honest, I don't think the ASF should do this
> from a privacy perspective.
>
> As an example, the Calcite community decided to create a dedicated, private
> list where users can ask for an account to avoid making the email address
> public.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Martijn
>
> Op wo 26 okt. 2022 om 22:31 schreef Danny Cranmer <dannycran...@apache.org
> >
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I agree with Gyula. My preference is also option 1, and as a fallback
> > option 3. Handling new user account requests will be manageable,
> especially
> > via slack. We could setup a dedicated channel for people to ask for
> > Jira/wiki access.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Danny
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Oct 2022, 12:16 Gyula Fóra, <gyf...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > I would also personally prefer staying with JIRA given the feature set
> > and
> > > the past positive experience with it.
> > > I think the structured nature of JIRA with flexible components, issue
> > > types, epics, release handling etc have been a great benefit to the
> > > project, it would be a shame to give some of these up.
> > >
> > > If for some reason Option 1 is not possible, I would still prefer
> Option
> > 3
> > > (requiring new contributors to ask for JIRA access) compared to the
> > > alternatives.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Gyula
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 3:48 PM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thank you for starting this discussion Xintong!
> > > >
> > > > I would also prefer option 1.
> > > >
> > > > The ASF Jira is probably one of the largest, public Jira instances on
> > the
> > > > internet. Most other Jiras are internal within companies, so
> Atlassian
> > is
> > > > probably not putting a lot of effort into automatically detecting and
> > > > preventing spam and malicious account creation.
> > > > If we want to convince Infra to keep the current sign up process, we
> > > > probably need to help them find a solution for the problem.
> > > > Maybe we can configure the ASF Jira to rely on GitHub as an identity
> > > > provider? I've just proposed that in the discussion on
> > > > us...@infra.apache.org, let's see ;)
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Robert
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 2:08 PM Konstantin Knauf <kna...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > while I see some benefits in moving to Github Issues completely, we
> > > need
> > > > to
> > > > > be aware that Github Issues lacks many features that Jira has. From
> > the
> > > > top
> > > > > of my head:
> > > > > * there are no issue types
> > > > > * no priorities
> > > > > * issues can only be assigned to one milestone
> > > > > So, you need to work a lot with labels and conventions and
> basically
> > > need
> > > > > bots or actions to manage those. Agreeing on those processes,
> setting
> > > > them
> > > > > up and getting used to them will be a lot of work for the
> community.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I am also in favor of 1) for now, because I don't really see a
> > good
> > > > > alternative option.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > Konstantin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am Mo., 24. Okt. 2022 um 22:27 Uhr schrieb Matthias Pohl
> > > > > <matthias.p...@aiven.io.invalid>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I agree that leaving everything as is would be the best option. I
> > > also
> > > > > tend
> > > > > > to lean towards option 4 as a fallback for the reasons already
> > > > mentioned.
> > > > > > I'm still not a big fan of the Github issues. But that's probably
> > > only
> > > > > > because I'm used to the look-and-feel and the workflows of Jira.
> I
> > > see
> > > > > > certain benefits of moving to Github, though. We're still having
> > the
> > > > idea
> > > > > > of migrating from AzureCI to GitHub Actions. Moving the issues to
> > > > GitHub
> > > > > as
> > > > > > well might improve the user experience even more. Reducing the
> > number
> > > > of
> > > > > > services a new contributor should be aware of to reach the
> > community
> > > > is a
> > > > > > good way to reduce the confusion for newcomers, I could imagine.
> > > > > > Additionally, I also like the fact that I wouldn't have to bother
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Apache Jira markdown anymore. 8)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with Martijn's concern about not being able to track all
> > > > > > Flink-related issues in a single system. I'm just wondering
> whether
> > > > > > something is holding us back from collecting all Flink-related
> > issues
> > > > in
> > > > > > the Flink's Github repository and disabling the issue feature in
> > any
> > > > > other
> > > > > > Flink-related repository?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > About migrating the Jira issues: I would be hopeful that
> migrating
> > is
> > > > > > doable in the end. There is a blog post from the spring data guys
> > > about
> > > > > > their journey on migrating from Jira to GitHub issues [1].
> > > > Unfortunately,
> > > > > > they didn't provide any scripts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the case that infra moves forward with disabling the signup
> > > without
> > > > > us
> > > > > > having come up with a decision and its actual execution (i.e.
> > > migrating
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Jira issues to GH), I would prefer having users send a request to
> > the
> > > > > > mailing list. I would rather have a temporary phase where
> there's a
> > > bit
> > > > > of
> > > > > > overhead of registering the users in the Apache Jira than having
> > two
> > > > > > locations for bug tracking. I suspect that there are no
> statistics
> > on
> > > > how
> > > > > > many new users register with Jira in a given timeframe to
> > contribute
> > > to
> > > > > > Flink?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matthias
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://spring.io/blog/2021/01/07/spring-data-s-migration-from-jira-to-github-issues
> > > > > > [2]
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/pjb5jzvw41xjtzgf4w0gggpqrt2fq6ov
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:28 AM Xintong Song <
> > tonysong...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree with you that option 1) would be the best for us. Let's
> > > keep
> > > > > > hoping
> > > > > > > for the best.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 4), as you said, comes with prices. At the moment, I
> don't
> > > > have
> > > > > > > thorough answers to your questions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just one quick response, I think there's a good chance that we
> > can
> > > > > import
> > > > > > > current Jira tickets into GH. Jira supports exporting issues
> with
> > > > > fields
> > > > > > > that you specified as CSV/XML/... files. With a brief google
> > > search,
> > > > I
> > > > > > > found some tools that help bulk creating issues in GH. E.g.,
> > > > > > > github-csv-tools [1] is described to support importing issues
> > with
> > > > > title,
> > > > > > > body, labels, status and milestones from a CSV file. That's
> > > probably
> > > > > good
> > > > > > > enough for us to search/filter the issues in GH, and a link to
> > the
> > > > Jira
> > > > > > > ticket can be posted in the GH issue for complete conversation
> > > > history
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > other details.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Xintong
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/gavinr/github-csv-tools
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 3:58 PM Martijn Visser <
> > > > > martijnvis...@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Xintong,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm also not in favour of option 2, I think that two systems
> > will
> > > > > > result
> > > > > > > > in an administrative burden and less-efficient workflow. I'm
> > also
> > > > not
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > favour of option 3, I think that this will result in first
> time
> > > > > > > > users/contributors in not-filling their first bug report,
> user
> > > > > question
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > feature request.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm still hoping for option 1 while the discussion is not
> > > finished
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > Infra.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If we assume that option 1 won't be possible, then I think
> > > option 4
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > be the best-option-left. I'm not necessarily in favour,
> because
> > > of
> > > > a
> > > > > > > number
> > > > > > > > of problems it will introduce:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. I don't think importing current Jira tickets into Github
> > > Issues
> > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > realistic option. So we would have two administrations.
> Before
> > > you
> > > > > > > create a
> > > > > > > > new ticket, you should check if it exists both as a Jira
> ticket
> > > and
> > > > > as
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > Github Issue.
> > > > > > > > 2. How would we deal with completing a PR? There must be one
> > > > > > > > administration leading for the changelog generation (to avoid
> > > that
> > > > > > you're
> > > > > > > > missing an item), which could then only be Github Issues. So
> > > would
> > > > we
> > > > > > > > require all PRs that are merged to exist as a Github Issue?
> > > > > > > > 3. There's no longer one central administration, which is
> > > > especially
> > > > > > > > valuable to track all issues across projects like the
> different
> > > > > > > connectors,
> > > > > > > > Flink ML, Table Store etc.
> > > > > > > > 4. Our current CI labeling works on the Jira issues, not on
> the
> > > > > Github
> > > > > > > > Issues labels.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Martijn
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 7:29 AM Xintong Song <
> > > > tonysong...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Hi devs and users,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> As many of you may have already noticed, Infra announced
> that
> > > they
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > >> soon disable public Jira account signups [1]. That means, in
> > > order
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> someone who is not yet a Jira user to open or comment on an
> > > issue,
> > > > > > > he/she
> > > > > > > >> has to first reach out to a PMC member to create an account
> > for
> > > > > > him/her.
> > > > > > > >> This raises the bar for new contributors and users to
> > > participate
> > > > in
> > > > > > > >> community interactions, making it necessary for us to
> consider
> > > > > whether
> > > > > > > (and
> > > > > > > >> how) we should change our issue tracking workflows.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I can see a few possible options.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 1. Reaching out to Infra and trying to change their mind on
> > this
> > > > > > > >> decision. I’ve already been trying this [2], and so far the
> > > > feedback
> > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > >> unoptimistic.
> > > > > > > >> 2. Using both Jira (for development issues) & Github Issues
> > (for
> > > > > > > >> customer-facing issues), as Infra suggested.
> > > > > > > >> 3. Stay with using Jira only, so that new Jira users need to
> > ask
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> mailing lists / Slack for creating accounts.
> > > > > > > >> 4. Migrating to Github Issues completely.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Personally, I’m leaning toward option 4).
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> TBH, I don’t see any good reason for option 2). I’d expect
> > using
> > > > two
> > > > > > > >> different issue tracking tools at the same time would be
> > complex
> > > > and
> > > > > > > >> chaotic. Option 3) is probably more friendly to existing
> > > > developers
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> users, while being less friendly to newcomers. Option 4) on
> > the
> > > > > > > contrary,
> > > > > > > >> is more friendly to newcomers, at some migration cost which
> > > might
> > > > be
> > > > > > > >> non-trivial but once for all.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Github issues have been widely used by many open source
> > > projects,
> > > > > > > >> including Kubernetes, Flink CDC, and Apache projects Iceberg
> > and
> > > > > > > Airflow.
> > > > > > > >> With a set of well-designed labels, we should be able to
> > achieve
> > > > > most
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> the Jira functions / features that we currently rely on.
> > > Moreover,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> better integrates the issue tracking and code contributing
> > > > systems,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> would be easier to access (I believe there’s more GH users
> > than
> > > > > Jira /
> > > > > > > >> mailing lists).
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> All in all, I’d suggest to keep monitoring Infra’s feedback
> on
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > 1),
> > > > > > > >> while taking steps (investigation, workflow & label design)
> > > > > preparing
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> option 4).
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Looking forward to hearing what you think about this.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Xintong
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> [1]
> > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/jx9d7sp690ro660pjpttwtg209w3m39w
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> [2]
> > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/fjjtk30dxf6fyoo4q3rmkhh028or40fw
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > https://twitter.com/snntrable
> > > > > https://github.com/knaufk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --
> Martijn
> https://twitter.com/MartijnVisser82
> https://github.com/MartijnVisser
>

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