I have created a JIRA issue and opened a pull request for this: https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pull/725.
Best, Jark On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 at 16:56, Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you all for your feedback. If there are no other concerns or > objections, > I'm going to create a pull request to add the Special Thanks page. > > Further feedback and sponsors to be added are still welcome! > > Best, > Jark > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 at 23:09, Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Hi Jark, >> >> Thanks for clarifying. At first sight, such a page indicated general >> sponsorship. +1 for a Thank You page to list specific monetary >> contributions to the project for resources which are actively used or >> were actively used in the past. >> >> Cheers, >> Max >> >> On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 11:55 AM Martijn Visser <martijnvis...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I'm +1 on it. As long as we follow the ASF rules on this, we can thank >> > those that are/have made contributions. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > Martijn >> > >> > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:45 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Matthias, >> > > >> > > Thanks for your comments! Please see my reply inline. >> > > >> > > > What do we do if we have enough VMs? Do we still allow >> > > companies to add more VMs to the pool even though it's not adding any >> > > value? >> > > >> > > The ASF policy[1] makes it very clear: "Project Thanks pages are to >> show >> > > appreciation >> > > for goods that the project truly needs, not just for goods that >> someone >> > > wants to donate." >> > > Therefore, the community should reject new VMs if it is enough. >> > > >> > > >> > > > The community lacks the openly accessible tools to monitor the VM >> usage >> > > independently >> > > as far as I know (the Azure Pipelines project is owned by Ververica >> right >> > > now). >> > > >> > > The Azure pipeline account is sponsored by Ververica, and is managed >> by the >> > > community. >> > > AFAIK, Chesnay and Robert both have admin permissions [2] to the Azure >> > > pipeline project. >> > > Others can contact the managers to get access to the environment. >> > > >> > > > I figured that there could be a chance for us to >> > > rely on Apache-provided infrastructure entirely with our current >> workload >> > > when switching over from Azure Pipelines. >> > > >> > > That sounds great. We can return back the VMs and mark the donations >> as >> > > historical >> > > on the Thank Page once the new GitHub Actions CI is ready. >> > > >> > > > I am fine with creating a Thank You page to acknowledge the >> financial >> > > contributions from Alibaba and Ververica in the past (since Apache >> allows >> > > historical donations) considering that the contributions of the two >> > > companies go way back in time and are quite significant in my >> opinion. I >> > > suggest focusing on the past for now because of the option to migrate >> to >> > > Apache infrastructure midterm. >> > > >> > > Sorry, do you mean we only mention past donations for now? >> > > IIUC, the new GitHub Actions might be ready after the end of v1.20, >> which >> > > probably be in half a year. >> > > I'm worried that if we say the sponsorship is ongoing until now (but >> it's >> > > not), it will confuse >> > > people and disrespect the sponsor. >> > > >> > > Besides, I'm not sure whether the new GitHub Actions CI will replace >> the >> > > machines for running >> > > flink-ci mirrors [3] and the flink benchmarks [4]. If not, I think >> it's >> > > inappropriate to say they are >> > > historical donations. >> > > >> > > Furthermore, we are collecting all kinds of donations. I just noticed >> that >> > > AWS donated [5] service costs >> > > for flink-connector-aws tests that hit real AWS services. This is an >> > > ongoing donation and I think it's not >> > > good to mark it as a historical donation. (Thanks for the donation, >> AWS, >> > > @Danny >> > > Cranmer <dannycran...@apache.org> @HongTeoh! >> > > We should add it to the Thank Page!) >> > > >> > > Best, >> > > Jark >> > > >> > > >> > > [1]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking#projectthanks >> > > [2]: >> > > >> > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Continuous+Integration#ContinuousIntegration-Contacts >> > > >> > > [3]: >> > > >> > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Continuous+Integration#ContinuousIntegration-Repositories >> > > >> > > [4]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/bkw6ozoflgltwfwmzjtgx522hyssfko6 >> > > >> > > [5]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-24474 >> > > >> > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 17:58, Matthias Pohl <map...@apache.org> wrote: >> > > >> > > > Thanks for starting this discussion. I see the value of such a page >> if we >> > > > want to encourage companies to sponsor CI infrastructure in case we >> need >> > > > this infrastructure (as Yun Tang pointed out). The question is, >> though: >> > > Do >> > > > we need more VMs? The amount of commits to master is constantly >> > > decreasing >> > > > since its peak in 2019/2020 [1]. Did we observe shortage of CI >> runners in >> > > > the past years? What do we do if we have enough VMs? Do we still >> allow >> > > > companies to add more VMs to the pool even though it's not adding >> any >> > > > value? Then it becomes a marketing tool for companies. The community >> > > lacks >> > > > the openly accessible tools to monitor the VM usage independently >> as far >> > > as >> > > > I know (the Azure Pipelines project is owned by Ververica right >> now). My >> > > > concern is (which goes towards what Max is saying) that this can be >> a >> > > > source of friction in the community (even if it's not about >> individuals >> > > but >> > > > companies). I'm not sure whether the need for additional >> infrastructure >> > > > out-weights the risk for friction. >> > > > >> > > > On another note: After monitoring the GitHub Action workflows >> (FLIP-396 >> > > > [2]) for the past weeks, I figured that there could be a chance for >> us to >> > > > rely on Apache-provided infrastructure entirely with our current >> workload >> > > > when switching over from Azure Pipelines. But that might be a >> premature >> > > > judgement because the monitoring started after the feature freeze of >> > > Flink >> > > > 1.19. We should wait with a final conclusion till the end of the >> 1.20 >> > > > release cycle. Apache Infra increased the amount of VMs they are >> offering >> > > > since 2018 (when the Apache Flink community decided to go for Azure >> > > > Pipelines and custom VMs as far as I know). That's based on a >> > > conversation >> > > > I had with the Apache Infra folks at one of their roundtable >> meetings >> > > [3]. >> > > > This and the fact that the amount of commits is decreasing in recent >> > > years >> > > > [1] (which correlates with the number of CI runs) could be >> indications >> > > that >> > > > additional VMs are not necessary (and with that, the need to have a >> Thank >> > > > You page as well). >> > > > >> > > > But I acknowledge that Alibaba and Ververica would like to be >> recognized >> > > > for their financial contributions to the community in the past. >> > > Therefore, >> > > > I am fine with creating a Thank You page to acknowledge the >> financial >> > > > contributions from Alibaba and Ververica in the past (since Apache >> allows >> > > > historical donations) considering that the contributions of the two >> > > > companies go way back in time and are quite significant in my >> opinion. I >> > > > suggest focusing on the past for now because of the option to >> migrate to >> > > > Apache infrastructure midterm. >> > > > >> > > > Best, >> > > > Matthias >> > > > >> > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/flink/graphs/contributors >> > > > [2] >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-396%3A+Trial+to+test+GitHub+Actions+as+an+alternative+for+Flink%27s+current+Azure+CI+infrastructure >> > > > [3] >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INFRA/Infra+Roundtable+2023-12-06%2C+17%3A00+UTC >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:06 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > > a rare way different than >> > > > > > individuals (few individuals can donate such resources) >> > > > > >> > > > > Theoretically, if an individual donates so, we list list him/her >> as >> > > well. >> > > > > >> > > > > I've seen such donations in The Perl Foundation like [1]. But >> since a >> > > > > PMC doesn't have a fundraising office, we may not accept raw money >> > > > > anyway; it's already out of the thread :D >> > > > > >> > > > > Best, >> > > > > tison. >> > > > > >> > > > > [1] >> https://news.perlfoundation.org/post/announcement_of_the_ian_hague >> > > > > >> > > > > Yun Tang <myas...@live.com> 于2024年3月6日周三 13:58写道： >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks for Jark's proposal, and I'm +1 for adding such a page. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > The CI infrastructure helps the Apache Flink project to run >> well. I >> > > > > cannot imagine how insufficient CI machines would impact the >> > > development >> > > > > progress, especially when the feature freeze date is close. And I >> > > believe >> > > > > that most guys who contributed to the community would not know >> Alibaba >> > > > and >> > > > > Ververica had ever donated several machines to make the community >> work >> > > > > smoothly for years. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Best >> > > > > > Yun Tang >> > > > > > ________________________________ >> > > > > > From: Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 11:35 >> > > > > > To: dev@flink.apache.org <dev@flink.apache.org> >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Add "Special Thanks" Page on the Flink >> Website >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Max, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you for your input. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > According to ASF policy[1], the Thank Page is intended to thank >> third >> > > > > > parties >> > > > > > that provide physical resources like machines, services, and >> software >> > > > > that >> > > > > > the committers >> > > > > > or the project truly needs. I agree with Tison, such donation >> is >> > > > > countable >> > > > > > and that's why >> > > > > > I started this discussion to collect the full list. The thank >> Page is >> > > > not >> > > > > > intended to thank working >> > > > > > hours or contributions from individual volunteers which I think >> > > > > > is recognized in other ways >> > > > > > (e.g., credit of committer and PMC member). >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > Jark >> > > > > > >> > > > > > [1]: >> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking#projectthanks >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 01:14, tison <wander4...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi Max, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your concerns :D >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I'd elaborate a bit on this topic with an example, that Apache >> > > > Airflow >> > > > > > > has a small section for its special sponsor who offers >> machines for >> > > > CI >> > > > > > > also [1]. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > In my understanding, companies employ developers to invest >> time in >> > > > the >> > > > > > > development of Flink and that is large, vague, and hard to be >> fair >> > > to >> > > > > > > list all of the companies. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > However, physical resources like CI machines are countable >> and they >> > > > > > > help the sustainability of our project in a rare way >> different than >> > > > > > > individuals (few individuals can donate such resources). We >> can >> > > > > > > maintain such a section or page for those sponsors so that it >> also >> > > > > > > decreases the friction when the company asks "what we can >> gain" >> > > (for >> > > > > > > explicit credits, at least, and easy understanding). >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Any entity is welcome to add themselves as long as it's valid. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > For the fair part, I'm not an employee of both companies >> listed on >> > > > the >> > > > > > > demo page and I don't feel uncomfortable. Those companies do >> > > invest a >> > > > > > > lot on our project and I'd regard it as a chance to encourage >> other >> > > > > > > companies to follow. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > > tison. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > [1] >> https://github.com/apache/airflow?tab=readme-ov-file#sponsors >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> 于2024年3月6日周三 00:49写道： >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I'm a bit torn on this idea. On the one hand, it makes >> sense to >> > > > thank >> > > > > > > > sponsors and entities who have supported Flink in the past. >> On >> > > > other >> > > > > > > > hand, this list is bound to be incomplete and maybe also >> biased, >> > > > even >> > > > > > > > if not intended to be so. I think the power of open-source >> comes >> > > > from >> > > > > > > > the unconditional donation of code and knowledge. >> Infrastructure >> > > > > costs >> > > > > > > > are a reality and donations in that area are meaningful, >> but they >> > > > are >> > > > > > > > just one piece of the total sum which consists of many >> volunteers >> > > > and >> > > > > > > > working hours. In my eyes, a Thank You page would have to >> display >> > > > > each >> > > > > > > > entity fairly which is going to be hard to achieve. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -Max >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 2:30 PM Jingsong Li < >> > > jingsongl...@gmail.com >> > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > +1 for setting up >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 5:39 PM Jing Ge >> > > > <j...@ververica.com.invalid >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > +1 and thanks for the proposal! >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Best regards, >> > > > > > > > > > Jing >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 10:26 AM tison < >> wander4...@gmail.com> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I like this idea, so +1 for setting up. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > For anyone who have the access, this is a related >> thread >> > > > about >> > > > > > > > > > > project-wise sponsor in the foundation level [1]. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > > > > > > tison. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [1] >> > > > > > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/2nv0x9gfk9lfnpb2315xgywyx84y97v6 >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> 于2024年3月5日周二 17:17写道： >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I posted the wrong [7] link. The Flink >> benchmark >> > > ML >> > > > > link >> > > > > > > is: >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/bkw6ozoflgltwfwmzjtgx522hyssfko6 >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 at 16:56, Jark Wu < >> imj...@gmail.com> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to propose adding a "Special Thanks" page >> to our >> > > > > Apache >> > > > > > > Flink >> > > > > > > > > > > website [1] >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to honor and appreciate the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > companies and organizations that have sponsored >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > machines or services for our project. The >> establishment >> > > > of >> > > > > > > such a page >> > > > > > > > > > > serves as >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > a public acknowledgment of our sponsors' >> contributions >> > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > > simultaneously acts >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > as a positive encouragement for other entities to >> > > > consider >> > > > > > > supporting >> > > > > > > > > > > our project. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding Per-Project Thanks pages is allowed by ASF >> > > > > policy[2], >> > > > > > > which >> > > > > > > > > > > says "PMCs >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > may wish to provide recognition for third parties >> that >> > > > > provide >> > > > > > > > > > > software or services >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to the project's committers to further the goals >> of the >> > > > > > > project. These >> > > > > > > > > > > are typically >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > called Per-Project Thanks pages". Many Apache >> projects >> > > > > have >> > > > > > > added such >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > pages, for example, Apache HBase[3] and Apache >> Mina[4]. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > To initiate this idea, I have drafted a >> preliminary >> > > page >> > > > > under >> > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > "About" menu >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > on the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Flink website to specifically thank Alibaba and >> > > > Ververica, >> > > > > by >> > > > > > > following >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the ASF guidelines and the Apache Mina project. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > page image: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://github.com/apache/flink/assets/5378924/e51aaffe-565e-46d1-90af-3900904afcc0 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Below companies are on the thanks list for their >> > > donation >> > > > > to >> > > > > > > Flink >> > > > > > > > > > > testing infrastructure: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > - Alibaba donated 8 machines (32vCPU,64GB) for >> running >> > > > > Flink >> > > > > > > CI builds >> > > > > > > > > > > [5]. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ververica donated 2 machines for hosting >> flink-ci >> > > > > > > repositories [6] >> > > > > > > > > > > and running Flink benchmarks [7]. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I may miss some other donations or companies, >> please >> > > add >> > > > > them >> > > > > > > if you >> > > > > > > > > > > know. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your feedback about this >> proposal! >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jark >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]: https://flink.apache.org/ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [2]: >> > > > > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking#projectthanks >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [3]: https://hbase.apache.org/sponsors.html >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [4]: https://mina.apache.org/special-thanks.html >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [5]: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Azure+Pipelines#AzurePipelines-AvailableCustomBuildMachines >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [6]: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Continuous+Integration >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [7]: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/41a68c775753a7841896690c75438e0a497634102e676db880f30225@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >
