On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Dorian Ellerbe <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Great ideas!
>
> 1) Regarding SWIM: Looks interesting, but I want to understand/research
> more.
>
> 2) +1 for HTTP. Anything to appeal to a larger audience of users and
> committers is good, especially if the dev overhead is relatively low.
>
> 5) Same idea as #2 above; though this will obviously require a larger
> effort. Maybe a functional implementation?
>
> 6) I've been reading a lot about Docker Swarm. We can spin up N instances
> of members and configure them in virtually (no pun) anyway we want. There
> are some excellent use cases for it and this is certainly one of them.
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:21 PM Edward Capriolo <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Sandeep More <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > For #3 the problem is a digest is not easy. The reason is that hosts
> > > communicate through each other. If there were three nodes A, B, and C,
> > and
> > > a message was sent from A -> B and then the message was sent from B ->
> C.
> > > Node B would be able to change the data and the digest. What I want to
> do
> > > is be able to ensure that the data is verified by A. This would be
> > > something like a PGP email. I want to verify that the message is
> > unaltered
> > > and that it is from a specific sender.
> > >
> > > SRM: I see, that would be complicated verifying the sender. I was
> > thinking
> > > of just verifying the signature on the hashes. Assuming we have a
> shared
> > > secret amongst all the nodes verifying a signature would not be too
> > > difficult. Verifying that the data comes from a specific node might be
> > > tricky.
> > >
> > > "It would be really cool if one could choose a custom data (like a
> > > String/Long value), I understand that this could be misused and
> > > misinterpreted as datastorage so may be there can be stricter limits on
> > the
> > > size of the custom payload. This might help Apps to integrate Gossip
> > > better."
> > >
> > > I am unclear about what you are saying here. We can already gossip
> > > arbitrary data between nodes.
> > >
> > > SRM: My bad, I missed this, thanks for pointing it out !
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-gossip/blob/master/
> > > src/test/java/org/apache/gossip/DataTest.java
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Edward
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Edward Capriolo <
> [email protected]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Sandeep More <[email protected]
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is exciting !
> > > > >
> > > > > #3, #2 and #1 especially look a great value add.
> > > > >
> > > > > On #3 I think signing the digest would be easier in short run,
> > > encrypting
> > > > > will mean involving complex keystore/truststore setup.
> > > > >
> > > > > May be you already covered this in Recipes or elsewhere but still
> > > putting
> > > > > it here:
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be really cool if one could choose a custom data (like a
> > > > > String/Long value), I understand that this could be misused and
> > > > > misinterpreted as datastorage so may be there can be stricter
> limits
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > size of the custom payload. This might help Apps to integrate
> Gossip
> > > > > better.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a thought !
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Sandeep
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Edward Capriolo <
> > > [email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > We currently have almost 10 open tickets for features /
> > improvements
> > > to
> > > > > > gossip, many are slated for the next release and we are on our
> way
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > ahead of schedule with that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wanted to pick everyone's brain as to where we should aim for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think some larger general directions are below:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) SWIM. https://www.cs.cornell.edu/~
> asdas/research/dsn02-swim.pdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a fairly large undertaking in terms of codifying the
> > protocol
> > > > and
> > > > > > keeping the project elegant with two Failure Detectors
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) HTTP as transport
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having two transports in the codebase is simple. I think this
> will
> > go
> > > > > well
> > > > > >  HTTP clients do all the session/persistence. Transplanting
> Gossip
> > to
> > > > > live
> > > > > > in a webapp wont be too bad but it might involve re-orging the
> > > project
> > > > a
> > > > > > bit into a multi-module maven project. I see a lot of upside here
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) Signed messages (
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GOSSIP-47)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While I am not a super expert in keystores and such this strikes
> me
> > > as
> > > > > > interesting idea. Mostly because it allows peers to share info
> but
> > > also
> > > > > be
> > > > > > able to sign/verify/encrypt info as it moves between peers. I
> have
> > > > never
> > > > > > seen something quite like this so I think it is novel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4) Recipes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Building things like Ephemeral Nodes or Leader Election seem to
> be
> > a
> > > > good
> > > > > > fit. Gossip should not be a database so this is a hard line to
> > draw.
> > > > This
> > > > > > will take some research and expertise to implement correctly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 5) Second implementation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Originally I planned to build out a second implementation in c,
> > node,
> > > > or
> > > > > > python. This seems less appealing to me at the moment, but if
> > Gossip
> > > > Java
> > > > > > gets too large/complex we will likely miss out window to do this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 6) something massive to spin up N instances in amazon and do
> > testing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is something that needs to happen, maybe in two parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 7) Other ideas? Let them fly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Edward
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > For #3 the problem is a digest is not easy. The reason is that hosts
> > > > communicate through each other. If there were three nodes A, B, and
> C,
> > > and
> > > > a message was sent from A -> B and then the message was sent from B
> ->
> > C.
> > > > Node B would be able to change the data and the digest. What I want
> to
> > do
> > > > is be able to ensure that the data is verified by A. This would be
> > > > something like a PGP email. I want to verify that the message is
> > > unaltered
> > > > and that it is from a specific sender.
> > > >
> > > > "It would be really cool if one could choose a custom data (like a
> > > > String/Long value), I understand that this could be misused and
> > > > misinterpreted as datastorage so may be there can be stricter limits
> on
> > > the
> > > > size of the custom payload. This might help Apps to integrate Gossip
> > > > better."
> > > >
> > > > I am unclear about what you are saying here. We can already gossip
> > > > arbitrary data between nodes.
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-gossip/blob/master/
> > > > src/test/java/org/apache/gossip/DataTest.java
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Edward
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > " Verifying that the data comes from a specific node might be tricky."
> >
> > For this feature to work the cluster nodes with either need one or more
> Pre
> > Shared Key or they would all have to agree on a (central) Certificate
> > Authority that could grant and verify. I would not expect this to be the
> > standard mode for most users, but I think it is fairly novel and would be
> > interesting to me.
> >
>

For #6 there are likely a few apache projects products producing docker
images. I am open to implementation here.

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