It could be that Harmony compiles JavaScript programs for server side. Node.js is an interesting server side JS environment. I personally like this direction and think high of its potential demands from the industry...
Thanks, xiaofeng On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Jimmy,Jing Lv <firep...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Johann, the whole idea is great to me. > Technically, I believe the Java world is just working on this topic - > moving JVM to be a common VM for all script languages, maybe for all > languages (say, Java7 has a new Dynamic Invoke in vm), In my point of view, > the difficulty here is still that we need to find enough influence to the > industry or people that they'd like to use/contribute to a Apache-licensed > VM like Harmony, we'd better hear more voice from other Apache projects, > other communities and developers if they do have such requirement (e.g, > Maven etc). Changing syntaxes will be another topic as well as changing the > standard, need more well-defined infrastructure, or we may find a hot area > where everything is changing very fast and standards are not finalized. > However I believe Harmony has chance - here or there. > > It's very kind of you, Johann, to bring us an amazing idea ( I googled > and find your appearance on a netbeans interview of > AlterSIG<http://netbeans.org/community/articles/interviews/johann-sorel-altersig.html>, > that is cool ;) ) > > 2010/12/19 johann Sorel <sorel.joh...@inbox.com> > >> Good evening, >> >> I have been reading the previous discussion on the harmony roadmap and the >> little message on the web site motivated me to make this proposal. >> "If you have an idea, come and join the community and talk about it." >> >> >> So here it is, first to quickly introduce myself and what I'm working on. >> My domain is Geographic Information Systems, developer on several java >> projects like GeoAPI, GeotoolKit, Constellation, Puzzle-GIS ... In the last >> several years I have always been very enthousiastic when developing and >> worked both on my professional and personnal time for thoses projects. My >> work implied working with ISO, OGC specifications and also JSR, even being >> part of the elaboration of some of them at the OGC. Today my motivation is >> nearly gone after the death of several projects I liked and mostly the >> behavior of oracle against the community. >> >> I started exploring alternatives outside the java world a few months ago >> and found out the Parrot VM project, to resume quickly what it is, it's an >> agnostic vm not related to any language and provide a set of tools to >> 'parse' syntaxe and run different languages, also allowing high >> interoperability between them. It believe it has a bright futur because >> that's the way a VM should be. >> >> Since it is now unlikely that harmony will be a 'validate' jvm, my proposal >> is to change harmony to match a similar goal as parrot, an agnostic VM with >> java as the reference language and start implementing other languages. Java >> is a great syntaxe but not always appropriate for all works like small >> parallal tasks and scientific operations / formulas. MatLab for example is >> much more used in research areas, python also has a growing community in >> this domain, java is just too complex and they don't want to bother with it >> and I perfectly understand there concern. Same thing for web applications, >> there are plenty of alternatives out there which are effective and have >> growing community. >> >> There are 3 objectives for this new 'Harmony': >> - make a neutral VM, not a JVM. >> - allow companies who want to move away from java to do so. this can only >> be possible when there is a high interoperability between languages, to >> enable us to use our old java libraries and tools (maven,ant...) with >> different languages while library are progressivly rewritten in some other >> language. >> - write programs in different syntaxes when they are more appropriate. >> >> Actually, alternative langages like Fantom or Scala run correctly only on a >> JVM. This gives them very little credit as replacement for java. >> Having a neutral, free and open source VM would benefit the community and >> creation of alternatives. >> As I imagine it, there would be a very slim crossplatform Harmony core >> project providing the low level mecanism : native interfacing system, >> exceptions, debugging/profiling, threads. And several sub projects for each >> language. >> >> >> You don't even have to rename the project. >> the 'Harmony' name perfectly matches this objective. :) >> >> >> I don't want to see harmony dye because of some legal/license problems, you >> did a great work to make this vm, all the core for a neutral VM is done, >> don't let it all go to waiste. If the JVM path can not continue, then so be >> it. See further, what needs the futur of programming ? >> Now, if the worst scenario happen and the decision to stop harmony is >> taken, then for the sake of futur vm projects make a generous effort and >> release a last version in public domain. >> >> >> The apache foundation expressed it's opinion and quit the JCP. I don't >> think it's a surprise, it's a natural decision after what happened. I am not >> part of the apache foundation, and made only very little exchanges with it >> on some mailing list like jackrabbit. This is actually the longest mail I >> ever written on thoses lists, just to note that apache decision reflect not >> only the apache foundation but also developers outside. >> >> What I see around me at work and as moderator of development forums are >> three kind of peoples : >> - base programmers, for them what does oracle is not there concern, they >> code, they get payed and that's all. >> - Commercial, as long as it sells, it's fine, but if you raise a small >> phrase like : 'hey, if we can make run our app on ZZZ vm, that's a good >> selling argument and since we only do LGPL libraries that's one more point >> for our tools don't you think.". they get interested, anything is good to >> use for promotion, making the jvm look like evil is pretty easy, clients >> get's attracted to the fact that they are not binded to some big company, >> that's specialy true when you work with research and public instituts who >> are surfing on the "open-source" belief. >> - Inovating programmers, doing more then their job time, answering student >> questions on forums, lead there own projet aside from work, thoses are the >> real strength of open-source, their main motivation is not money but the >> sake of the project and leaving behind them something helping the community. >> They are concerned by what does oracle, most don't like what's going on but >> are chained to continue because it's too much work to start again in a >> different language, and they can't really express themselves since >> commercial are behind them to ensure no harm is done to the company, the >> general atmosphere is something like "damn I'm trapped" or "let's hope it >> calms down". >> >> My concerns are not for the two first categories, but the last one, if >> there is a chance to move away without loosing the work done then they'll >> definitly try it and the two first categories will follow. If Harmony can >> offer this small door to exit the trap then Harmony will won. I believe >> apache Maven is the key project, if a project can run with dependencies of >> different languages and bytecodes, you won! >> >> >> that was a long mail ... sorry :) >> I hope my english wasn't too bad and that it gave ideas. >> >> >> johann sorel >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if5 >> Capture screenshots, upload images, edit and send them to your friends >> through IMs, post on Twitter®, Facebook®, MySpace™, LinkedIn® – FAST! >> > > > > -- > > Best Regards! > > Jimmy, Jing Lv > -- http://people.apache.org/~xli
