Andrey is right, dev list is our primary form of communication, and for many good reasons.
Other forms of communications are fine, but all discussions/decisions should be reflected on the dev list in one form or another. - Had a chat in slack and agreed on something? Write a summary to the dev list - Had a meeting? Recording is great, but please post meeting minutes in text form to the dev list Thanks, Pavel On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:23 PM Denis Magda <dma...@apache.org> wrote: > Andrey, > > I'm not insisting to replace dev list with Slack or always react to Slack > messages. It's up to us to decide where and with what frequency to respond. > My suggestion is just to have Slack as an extra tool for the Ignite dev > communications (no user support). > > I also prefer either email conversations (time to think, no commitments to > respond ASAP) or phone calls (make things done now). But sometimes Slack > comes handy. For instance, I'd like to have a faster channel to talk to > Nikolay Izhikov, Anton Vinogradov or Roman Shtykh on Ignite related tasks > discussed initially on the dev. > > > - > Denis > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:04 AM Andrey Gura <ag...@apache.org> wrote: > > > Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat is > > "bla-bla-bla". > > > > IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite > > Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of some > > phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk me > > about threads in Slack, they are useless). So transparency isn't > > chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will have > > as result something like salad "Asynchronous": > > tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will have > > for discussion of one topic by many members. > > > > Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It > > asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to > > community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list > > are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will > > follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and > > nothing more. > > > > Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels > > aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess. > > > > I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's impossible > > for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above. > > > > I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But > > openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all > > about mailing lists, not chats. > > > > [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван <vololo...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > + Meeting minutes > > > > > > 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev <zaleslaw....@gmail.com>: > > > > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced > > Hangout > > > > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to > the > > > > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the > > recorded > > > > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to share > > with > > > > the community members. > > > > > > > > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan <achav...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > >> Hi Denis, > > > >> > > > >> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are > > > >> there > > > >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project > > where > > > >> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to > > > >> start > > > >> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a > > mentor > > > >> or > > > >> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can > > ping > > > >> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie > ticket > > > >> from > > > >> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe > its > > > >> good > > > >> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks, > > > >> Amit > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda <dma...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the > > conversation > > > >> > about Ignite Slack: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html > > > >> > > > > >> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite > has > > met > > > >> to > > > >> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton > > and > > > >> > I > > > >> > took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards > to > > > >> > transparency and openness are as follows: > > > >> > > > > >> > - A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and > it's > > > >> unclear > > > >> > whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on > > in > > > >> > the > > > >> > background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend > to > > > >> > fall > > > >> > back > > > >> > to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or > > > >> > face-to-face > > > >> > meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community. > > Emails > > > >> (dev > > > >> > list) are the right communication channel but not for all of > the > > > >> stages. > > > >> > - Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it > > takes > > > >> many > > > >> > rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a > review. > > In > > > >> many > > > >> > cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with > > regular > > > >> > tasks > > > >> > imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some > > public > > > >> > tracking approach that will help us all to see who and when > will > > be > > > >> > able to > > > >> > review certain changes and make them to Ignite. > > > >> > > > > >> > To address the problems we want to propose the following: > > > >> > > > > >> > - Keep using dev list the way you do today. No changes need to > be > > > >> > done > > > >> > here. > > > >> > - Introduce Ignite Slack for instant messaging across all the > > > >> community > > > >> > members who are obviously employed by different companies. > Ignite > > > >> > PMC > > > >> > will > > > >> > be managing channels for various topics. Go to Slack when email > > (dev > > > >> > list) > > > >> > conversation is no longer effective, the way we do daily, no > > need to > > > >> > complicate our lives just because we work on an open-source > > project > > > >> > together. > > > >> > - Two or more committers need to talk verbally? Go ahead and > > > >> > schedule > > > >> a > > > >> > meeting with Google Hangouts or another tool. Send an invite to > > the > > > >> dev > > > >> > list for those who'd like to join and listen or share opinion. > > Want > > > >> > to > > > >> > talk > > > >> > in your native language? Go ahead and put a disclaimer that a > > > >> > conversation > > > >> > will be in Chinese, Russia, French, whatever. Simple and open. > > > >> > - Don't know how soon you'll be able to review some changes > and, > > > >> > thus, > > > >> > ignoring other committers requests? GridGain and Sberbank are > > ready > > > >> > to > > > >> > propose a solution here. Both vendors use an approach to > > cooperate > > > >> > between > > > >> > GridGain and Sberbank committers. Now we'd like to make it > fully > > > >> > open > > > >> > and > > > >> > adjust for community needs if required. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thoughts, suggestions? I think we'll schedule a community meeting > to > > > >> finish > > > >> > the conversation or discuss any cornerstone points. But start with > > your > > > >> > questions first. > > > >> > > > > >> > - > > > >> > Denis > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Best regards, > > > Ivan Pavlukhin > > >
