Hello Sebb, Milamber, Rainer, Reminder for this. Regards Philippe
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Philippe Mouawad < philippe.moua...@gmail.com> wrote: > Last try to convince you :-) > > On Thursday, August 23, 2012, sebb wrote: > >> On 22 August 2012 21:43, Philippe Mouawad <philippe.moua...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:21 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On 22 August 2012 17:52, Milamber <milam...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> > philippe.moua...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Restarting the discussion about logger. >> >> >> >> >> >> I agree with sebb java.util.logging is not great compared to >> >> slf4j/logback >> >> >> , log4j or commons-logging. >> >> >> >> >> >> My opinion is slf4j/logback would be the best choice as it's: >> >> >> >> >> >> - the most up to date >> >> >> - is the next evolution of LOG4J for logback >> >> >> - was build from commons-logging experience for SLF4J >> >> >> - logback seems to have more features than log4j >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I don't see the point of replacing the existing logging. >> >> What benefit would we get? >> >> >> > Does current implementation support MDC or NDC ? >> >> No idea what they are. >> >> > > > http://veerasundar.com/blog/2009/11/log4j-mdc-mapped-diagnostic-context-example-code/ > > http://stackoverflow.com/search?q=%5Blog4j%5D+%2BMDC > > > Milamber wrote an article but it's in french. > >> > Oth > > er features I see: >> > >> > - Parameterized log messages : >> > http://slf4j.org/faq.html#logging_performance >> >> We already use the if enabled wrappers. >> >> More powerful as not String concat and cleaner logging > > > - Marker objects : see >> > - >> > >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766411/overriding-the-logging-methods-logger-warn-in-slf4j >> , >> > >> > - http://logback.qos.ch/manual/layouts.html#Evaluators >> >> Do we really need this functionality? >> Looks rather complicated to me. >> >> It could be helpful for debugging thread related issues > >> >> > >> > What's wrong with the existing functionality? >> >> >> > it is based on a retired project (Excalibur). It kind of hurts me. >> >> Irrelevant if it works. > > > I disagree. For dev committers and contributors it's important to have Up > to date and documented APi with lots of resources ( stackoverflow) > > For new comers, they will look at what Libraries are used, too old ones > car fear or can be a negative point. > > Furthermore are we sure performances of theseew libraries are not better ? > ( you will kill this argument ;) ) > > >> > Not much documentation on web, I had to search last time when >> implementing >> > 41788 and 53261. API is limited compared to Commons-logging, log4j , >> slf4j >> >> In what way is it limited? >> AFAIK, it's similar to commons-logging. >> >> No there are limitations on appenders additions, you cannot add, you must > set them all, at least one issue i faced. > > > >> > I remember when starting using jmeter (I knew at that time log4j, >> > commons-logging) I had to modify log level somewhere, I search a while >> > because it was a new mechanism to learn (had jmeter relied on existing >> conf >> > of log4j or other I would have found this very rapidly, ActiveMQ for >> > example uses commons-logging, slf4j and possibly logback). >> > >> >> Would we lose any functionality by changing? >> >> >> > I don't think so. >> > But maybe you should detail all the features and we could check. >> >> That's quite difficult to do. >> >> >> >> >> It took a lot of work to get everything set up properly; and will be a >> >> very major undertaking to change everything. >> >> It's not just changes to class import statements and creating a >> >> different logger. >> >> There's documentation, and the way we use properties to control >> >> logging different classes and packages. >> >> If that changes, it could break some user installations. >> >> >> > >> > I agree it changes but log4j, commons-logging, slf4j are such standard >> that >> > it's very easy to find info, for example look at stackoverflow >> statistics: >> > >> > - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/slf4j : 390 questions >> > - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/log4j : 2170 questions >> > - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/logback : 320 questions >> > - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/apache-commons-logging: 61 >> > questions >> > - logkit, avalon, excalibur : 0 questions >> > >> >> So? AFAICT, most of that relates to using and implementing logging, >> rather than configuring logging levels, which is the main issue for >> end users. >> >> They also relate to configuring , what i am trying to sat is that there > is much more docs on these new libs as on excalibur one. > Regarding user, see my argument on contributors , plugin writers, > developpers > > > >> > Users will also need to get learn a different way of controlling >> logging. >> >> >> >> >> > We could rely on underlying product documentation which is quite well >> known >> > (log4j , logback ) instead of creating our own mechanism . >> > We could then remove all Logging Configuration paragraph from >> > jmeter.properties. >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Perhaps, some issue with the logback dual licences (EPL and LGPL). >> I'm >> >> not >> >> > sure if we can used the logback with only the choice of EPL >> licence... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > The commons-logging and the Log4j are under AL2.0, seems better to >> use an >> >> > ASF product in an ASF product? ;-) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I think we should really remove dependency on Apache Excalibur. >> >> >> >> We still use parts of Excalibur for JDBC pooling. >> >> >> >> I don't see the point of pooling if you are testing JDBC; it then >> >> becomes as much a test of the pool rather than JDBC. >> >> >> > Don't understand this >> > >> >> >> >> If we do want to support pooling, it should be selectable. >> >> However I don't know if there is a standard Pooling API, so that might >> >> not be possible. >> >> >> >> Why not use commons-dbcp or tomcat-pool for this ? >> >> See separate thread. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> >> >> Philippe >> >> >> // Copying dialog from another thread: >> >> >> >> >> >> Philippe says >> >> >> >> As we are now in these big changes (static final, interface >> cleanup >> >> ... >> >> >> ) >> >> >> >> Sebb, milamber is it ok for you if I start migration to >> >> commons-logging >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Milamber says: >> >> >> > Why commons-loggings (not updated since 2008)? >> >> >> >> >> >> Sebb says: >> >> >> AIUI it's not been updated since it works; there has been no need to >> >> update >> >> >> it. >> >> >> >> >> >> > Log4J ? >> >> >> >> >> >> > or directly java.util.logging.*? >> >> >> >> >> >> That's broken, according to what I read. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> >> philippe.moua...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hello Sebb, >> >> >> > My responses below. >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > Philippe >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:02 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On 23 January 2012 06:49, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> philippe.moua...@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Regarding logging, >> >> >> >> > It CAN Go fast if we share work and each of us takes one SRC >> >> folder. >> >> >> >> > It's à matter f search replace for 90%. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It's still the same amount of work, no matter how many people do >> it. >> >> >> >> [Possibly more, if you allow for co-ordination overheads] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Generally it's the last 10% that takes all the effort. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > => I agree , I volunteer to do it if you agree after release. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Definitely not something to be started just before a release. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> => It was not my intention, it is just after the release. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Also, we would still need to keep the jars unless we rewrote >> >> >> >> OldSaveService - or made it optional. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Regarding pool i am not sure to there is an datasourceelemnt >> That >> >> >> has à >> >> >> >> > Maxpool property and looking at code it seemed the excalibur >> >> >> datasource >> >> >> >> > was using this property. >> >> >> >> > Commons jdbc BasicDatasource was looking very close to it. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> >> > Philippe >> >> >> >> > On Monday, January 23, 2012, Anthony Johnson <ans...@gmail.com >> > >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:28 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >>> On 23 January 2012 01:46, Anthony Johnson <ans...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 8:29 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> On 22 January 2012 13:04, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> >> >> philippe.moua...@gmail.com> >> > > > -- > Cordialement. > Philippe Mouawad. > > > > -- Cordialement. Philippe Mouawad.