For whom is JRuby intended for?

I tend to agree with what Charles said earlier, that only those who
contribute code to JRuby have a say in this process. Having observed the
discussion for the past few days, I noticed that most contributors are
calling for move to Java 5. This seems to be a good reason for moving to
Java 5 as minimum.

Besides, if the enterprises really want their 1.4.2 JRuby, they are always
welcomed to pay for additional work. I could see TW or other companies
jumping in to fill the gap (assuming such a demand actually exists). In
fact, a dual-promotion strategy may be employed - wow them with the
productivity and performance of the JRuby 1.1 release, and if they insist on
staying on Java 1.4, charge them for JRuby 1.0 (with 1.1-level
performance/productivity). 

I am all for promoting JRuby to all fields of use, but ultimately, in going
after a new demography, we may be neglecting the core group of contributors.
>From what I can see, all the JRuby innovations, so far, came from individual
contributors. The only "enterprise" contributors are Sun and TW (and I am
sure TW can charge extra for a 1.4 version of JRuby).

As a compromise and assuming that I understand the current branching
correctly, how about if we merge changes back to 1.0-branch, release a
1.0.1, and restart the 1.1-branch to be Java 5 only? This should give a good
baseline for those who have to stay on 1.4 (and for TW and others who want
to support Java 1.4). In the meantime, we can still start afresh for 1.1.

I haven't followed the sources code for the past few months, so I had to
make a few assumptions. I am sure that Ola can correct me on how feasibility
it is to maintain JRuby 1.1-level features with a 1.0 codebase.

Peter 

________________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex
Durgin
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 5:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jruby-dev] Java version


On 7/29/07, Ola Bini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Hi,

So, once again, the question of which should be the minimum Java version
to run JRuby. We are currently at 1.4.2, but the proposal is to move to
5 for trunk and all major releases from now on. This does not concern
the 1.0.x-series.

I wrote a blog post about it, and got quite many replies. Almost all of
them very positive about going to 5, but there were a few that 
represents my gut feel about it. Take this for example, from Jesper:
I think for a lot of users one of the most compelling aspects of JRuby
is it's ability to sneak Ruby into the enterprise. If you decide to 
ditch 1.4, many enterprises will not be able to run JRuby (and Rails) on
their existing infrastructure - and these guys *don't* just upgrade.
Besides from Websphere 6 and Weblogic 9 also Oracle Application Server 
10g is using 1.4.2.
For now, the cutting edge shops are running CRuby/Mongrel and in the
enterprise shops we can sneak in a little magic with JRuby. So for now,
please stay on 1.4.


I also asked on one of the internal Java discussion lists for TW, and 
the results were mixed to. What was obvious was that we needed some way
to handle backwards compatibility, and retroweaver wouldn't be enough.
Further, staying on 1.0.x may not be an option either, since we're doing 
substantial changes in trunk now.

I'm feeling deeply torn, especially since I know many of the features of
Java 5 will make our lives easier. Can we go the middleground?
Development and building has to be done with Java 5 or later, meaning 
that the source code can contain annotations, which we can use to do
code generation with apt. We can force the resulting jars to be
1.4-compliant anyway. We could also make dual distributions, where the
5+ distribution contains real concurrency instead of the backport, and 
so forth.

I don't really know how to solve this problem in a good way.

Cheers

--
Ola Bini (http://ola-bini.blogspot.com)
JRuby Core Developer
Developer, ThoughtWorks Studios (http://studios.thoughtworks.com)

"Yields falsehood when quined" yields falsehood when quined.
 
 
There is the saying that fact trumps intuition. From this mailing list, it
doesn't sound like there is much of a cry for 1.4 .  What exactly is the
market for JRuby?  Is having the fastest and most capable Ruby
implementation the end game?   Maybe some sacrifices have to be made to get
there.  I'd like to think that most of us are here because we see that this
project is headed in that direction. 
 
A lot of us are enjoying some free lunch and understand the ground rules of
doing so.  Projects of this sort aren't maintained for charity as they do
serve the direct interests of those involved.  BEA, IBM, Oracle, and anyone
else is welcome to maintain support for 1.4.

 


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