You meant JSSE not JCE right? We are not talking about cryptographic providers we are talking about ssl providers hence JSSE.
I do understand how JSSE Providers work and also the impact of multiple JSSE providers with same algorithms in same JVM along with sequencing challenges for the same. Like you said- we need to allow customizing the configuration for SSLContext, so how many ways we have? Option-1: Write a custom JSSE Provider with our SSLContext Option-2: Use whichever SSLContext impl that you get from existing JSSE Provider for SSLContext AND customize data for key material, trust material AND secure random. Which one you prefer for this context? I feel we are making it complicated for no reason. It is very simple - When we need to have SSL we need data points like - 1) Keys, 2) Trust certs and 3) Secure Random which is feed to SSLContext and we are done. So we can keep existing Kafka implementation as is by just making those data points pluggable. Now SecureRandom is already pluggable via 'ssl.secure.random.implementation' so that leaves us with keys and trusted certs. For that purpose I raised KIP-486 BUT everybody feels we still need higher level of pluggability hence this KIP. I"ve been taking advice from the domain experts and Application security teams and to them it is very straight-forward - Make SSLContext configuration/building pluggable and that's it! Thanks Maulin On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 5:47 AM Pellerin, Clement <clement_pelle...@ibi.com> wrote: > If I understand correctly, you are proposing to abandon the idea of a > pluggable extension point for SSL in Kafka because we could rely on the JCE > provider mechanism. > > I will reiterate that nobody does it that way. That in itself should be > enough but let's discuss some of the reasons why. > > Changing the order of the JCE providers in the java.security file affects > all java applications so you probably don't want to do it there. Changing > the order of the JCE providers in the JVM instance affects all code it > runs. Your library is not alone in the JVM process and other code will want > regular SSLContext instances. That leaves you with the only option of > specifying the provider explicitly when you create the SSLContext instance > in Kafka. That would work, as long as your users don't mess things up with > the very common configuration approaches above. > > A JCE SSLContext provider is intended to be a mechanism to replace the > SSLContext implementation. Our purpose is to customize the configuration, > not to replace it. This becomes hard to do when your only chance is at > creation time. Kafka then does its thing and you have no way to modify that > behavior in Kafka. You no longer support many legitimate use cases. > > The final blow is the need to sign JCE providers using a certificate > signed by Oracle's JCE Code Signing Certification Authority. > > https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/getcodesigningcertificate-361306.html > JCE will refuse to load your provider if it is not signed. Getting the > certificate is a pain and it takes time. You also have to worry about the > certificate expiration date. There are JVMs that don't require signed JCE > providers, but you cannot limit Kafka to just those JVMs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maulin Vasavada [mailto:maulin.vasav...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 5:31 PM > To: dev@kafka.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-519: Make SSL context/engine configuration > extensible > > In other words, Kafka doesn't necessarily need to derive another > interface/mechanism to make SSLEngine pluggable. That interface/mechanism > exists in Java with Security Provider's SSLContext Algorithms. > Ref-1: > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/9/docs/specs/security/standard-names.html#sslcontext-algorithms > Ref-2 > <https://docs.oracle.com/javase/9/docs/specs/security/standard-names.html#sslcontext-algorithmsRef-2> > : > > https://github.com/bcgit/bc-java/blob/master/tls/src/main/java/org/bouncycastle/jsse/provider/BouncyCastleJsseProvider.java#L193 > > About the " whole world chooses to make the javax.net.ssl.SSLSocketFactory > pluggable" I found the official documentation reinforcing my point I made > above, > "The javax.net.ssl.SSLSocket class represents a network socket that > encapsulates SSL/TLS support on top of a normal stream socket ( > java.net.Socket). Some applications might want to use alternate data > transport abstractions (e.g., New-I/O); the javax.net.ssl.SSLEngine class > is available to produce and consume SSL/TLS packets." > Reference: > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/security/overview/jsoverview.html > > I feel that we have to think about building SSLContext in a pluggable way > since that is the class that takes "key/trust" material and secure-random > config and help creates SSLEngine, SocketFactories via the TLS algorithm's > provider specified by Security Provider configuration. > > Thanks > Maulin > >
