Hey Jason, thanks for the suggestions! Addressed in the KIP.
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:21 AM Jason Gustafson <ja...@confluent.io> wrote: > +1 Just a couple small comments: > > 1. My comment about `initTransactions()` usage in the javadoc above appears > not to have been addressed. > 2. For the handling of INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH in the produce response, > would we only try to abort if the broker supports the newer protocol > version? I guess it would be simpler in the implementation if the producer > did it in any case even if it might not be useful for older versions. > > -Jason > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:55 PM Guozhang Wang <wangg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Sounds good to me. Thanks Boyang. > > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:32 PM Boyang Chen <reluctanthero...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks Guozhang, > > > > > > I think most of the complexity comes from our intention to benefit > older > > > clients. After a second thought, I think the add-on complexity > > counteracts > > > the gain here as only 2.5 client is getting a slice of the resilience > > > improvement, not for many older versions. > > > > > > So I decide to drop the UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID path, by just claiming that > > > this change would only benefit 2.6 Producer clients. So the only path > > that > > > needs version detection is the new transaction coordinator handling > > > transactional requests. If the Producer is 2.6+, we pick > > > PRODUCER_FENCED(new error code) or TRANSACTION_TIMED_OUT as the > response; > > > otherwise we return INVALID_PRODUCE_EPOCH to be consistent with older > > > clients. > > > > > > Does this sound like a better plan? I already updated the KIP with > > > simplifications. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:02 PM Guozhang Wang <wangg...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Boyang, > > > > > > > > Your reply to 3) seems conflicting with your other answers which is a > > bit > > > > confusing to me. Following your other answers, it seems you suggest > > > > returning UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID so that 2.5 clients can trigger retry > > logic > > > > as well? > > > > > > > > To complete my reasoning here as a complete picture: > > > > > > > > a) post KIP-360 (2.5+) the partition leader broker does not return > > > > UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID any more. > > > > b) upon seeing an old epoch, partition leader cannot tell if it is > due > > to > > > > fencing or timeout; so it could only return INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH. > > > > > > > > So the basic idea is to let the clients ask the transaction > coordinator > > > for > > > > the source of truth: > > > > > > > > 1) 2.5+ client would handle UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID (which could only be > > > > returned from old brokers) by trying to re-initialize with the > > > transaction > > > > coordinator; the coordinator would then tell it whether it is > > > > PRODUCER_FENCED or TXN_TIMEOUT. And for old brokers, it would always > > > return > > > > PRODUCER_FENCED anyways. > > > > 2) 2.6+ client would also handle INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH with the > retry > > > > initializing logic; and similarly the transaction coordinator would > > > > return PRODUCER_FENCED or TXN_TIMEOUT if it is new or always > > > > return PRODUCER_FENCED if it is old. > > > > > > > > The question open is, whether > > > > > > > > * 3) the new broker should return UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID now when it is > > > > *supposed* to return INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH and it found the request > is > > > > from 2.5 client (note as mentioned in a) right now we do not > > > > return UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID from brokers anymore). > > > > > > > > If it does, then 2.5 client could still do the retry logic to the > > > > transaction coordinator, i.e. benefit from KIP-360; but the cost is > > > complex > > > > logic on the broker side as well as producer API version bump up. > > > > If it does not, then when INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH is returned to the > old > > > > client it would treat it as fatal and not ask the txn coordinator; > but > > it > > > > simplifies the broker logic and also do not require producer API > > version > > > > bump. > > > > > > > > Personally I'd suggest we do the latter, knowing that it would not > > > benefit > > > > 2.5 client when the partition leader gets an old epoch and does not > > know > > > > whether it is Fenced or Timed Out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Guozhang > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 7:59 PM Boyang Chen < > > reluctanthero...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks Jason and Guozhang for the thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 6:09 PM Guozhang Wang <wangg...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > For 2/3 above, originally I was not thinking that we will have a > > > > > different > > > > > > exception for INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH and hence was thinking that > in > > > > order > > > > > > to leverage KIP-360 for it, we'd have to let the broker to > > > > > > return UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID. I.e. we'd change the logic of > partition > > > > > leader > > > > > > as well to return UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID to let the producer try > > > > > > re-initializing the PID on the coordinator, and if it is indeed > due > > > to > > > > > > fencing, then coordinator can let the client know of the fatal > > error > > > > and > > > > > > then fail. In that case, then we do need to bump up the producer > > API > > > > > > version so that the partition leader knows if it is from older or > > > newer > > > > > > clients: if it is older client who do not have KIP-360, we'd > return > > > > > > INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH still; for newer client, we can > > > > > > return UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID to let it seek what's the truth on > > > > > coordinator. > > > > > > > > > > > I know this is a bit of reversed order. Feel free to check out my > > reply > > > > to > > > > > Jason first and go back here :) > > > > > I think the partition leader will have no change of returned code > > after > > > > we > > > > > discussed that only new client should be able to retry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now since we are additionally mapping INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH to a > > > > > different > > > > > > error code now and letting clients to handle that similar > > > > > > to UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID, this can be saved indeed. However, it > also > > > > means > > > > > > that 2.5.0 clients would not get benefited from this KIP, since > > they > > > > > still > > > > > > treat INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH as fatal. If people this that's okay > > > then > > > > we > > > > > > can simplify the partition leader behavior as well as not bumping > > up > > > > > > producer APIs. I think I'm a bit inclined towards simplicity over > > > > > > benefiting older clients. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.5 client should get benefits if we return UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID as > I > > > have > > > > > described below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guozhang > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 5:37 PM Jason Gustafson < > > ja...@confluent.io> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Boyang, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few minor questions below: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You mention UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID in 2.a under Resilience > > > > > Improvements. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > assume that should be INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH? I am not sure > this > > > case > > > > > > makes > > > > > > > sense for 2.5 clients which would view this error as fatal > > > regardless > > > > > of > > > > > > > whatever the broker does. Not sure there's anything we can do > > about > > > > > that. > > > > > > > Similarly, if a newer client is talking to a 2.5 broker, it > > > wouldn't > > > > be > > > > > > > able to bump the epoch after a timeout because the broker would > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > to > > > > > > > keep the last epoch. Unfortunately, I think the only > improvements > > > > that > > > > > > are > > > > > > > possible here are newer clients talking to newer brokers, but I > > > might > > > > > > have > > > > > > > missed something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reasoning for returning UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID is to trigger the > > retry > > > > > logic on 2.5 client hopefully. > > > > > As stated in the KIP, the benefited parties are *2.5 client and 2.6 > > > > > client *only. If > > > > > transaction coordinator returns INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH for a > > > transaction > > > > > timeout case, 2.5 client still has to treat as fatal as it only > > > > recognizes > > > > > PRODUCER_FENCED. Returning UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID for 2.5 client is a > > > > > substitute for TRANSACTION_TIMED_OUT error code, think of 9656 > > > > > <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-9656> as a similar > > > > > motivation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The proposal says that newer clients talking to older > brokers > > > > should > > > > > > > treat PRODUCER_FENCED as non-fatal. Just to clarify, older > > brokers > > > > will > > > > > > > only return INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH because the PRODUCER_FENCED > > > error > > > > > did > > > > > > > not exist. I think the logic should be something like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Transaction Coordinator: > > > > > > > - For old request versions, we continue returning > > > > > INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH. > > > > > > > Clients will translate this to PRODUCER_FENCED as they do today > > and > > > > > treat > > > > > > > this as a fatal error. > > > > > > > - For new request versions, we return either PRODUCER_FENCED or > > > > > > > TRANSACTION_TIMED_OUT depending on the case. Clients will treat > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > as fatal and will bump the epoch on the latter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the partition leader: > > > > > > > - Nothing changes. Old clients will treat > INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH > > as > > > > > > fatal. > > > > > > > New clients will attempt to bump the epoch if the right version > > of > > > > > > > InitProducerId is supported and fail otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does that seem right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I stated in the previous answer, the txn coordinator could also > > > choose > > > > > to return UNKNOWN_PRODUCER_ID for 2.5 clients or older > > > > > when there is a txn timeout. The rest looks good to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Why do we need the bump to the Produce API? As far as I can > > > tell, > > > > we > > > > > > are > > > > > > > not changing any errors that are used. The > INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH > > > > error > > > > > > is > > > > > > > already possible today and the two new errors cannot be > returned > > > from > > > > > > > Produce. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guozhang had some thoughts about it. I think one vague point we > > haven't > > > > > clarified is what's the expected error code for server and client. > > The > > > > > relation should look like: > > > > > old client INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH -> 47 (ProducerFencedException) > > > > > new client INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH -> 47 (InvalidEpochException), > > > > > PRODUCER_FENCED -> 91 (ProducerFencedException) > > > > > old broker INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH -> 47 (ProducerFencedException) > > > > > new broker INVALID_PRODUCER_EPOCH -> 47 (InvalidEpochException), > > > > > PRODUCER_FENCED -> 91 (ProducerFencedException) > > > > > > > > > > As we could see here, for a new partition leader, we shall return > > code > > > 47 > > > > > no matter what as stated in the KIP that PRODUCER_FENCED is not a > > valid > > > > > case reported from partition leader. So new client should always > > > trigger > > > > > the retry logic for partition leader error. I guess the Produce API > > > bump > > > > is > > > > > not necessary then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. The javadoc examples suggest the user should call > > > > > `initTransactions()` > > > > > > > in the case that a timeout is reached. I don't think that's > > right. > > > > For > > > > > > > KIP-360, we bump the epoch internally. I think we'd want to do > > the > > > > same > > > > > > > here so that we continue the current pattern where > > > > `initTransactions()` > > > > > > is > > > > > > > used just once. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's correct observation, will address it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 2:24 PM Guozhang Wang < > > wangg...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (binding), thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:36 PM Boyang Chen < > > > > > > reluctanthero...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to start the vote for KIP-588: > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-588 > > > > > > > > > > > > > %3A+Allow+producers+to+recover+gracefully+from+transaction+timeouts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to continue posting on discussion thread if you > > have > > > > > > > > > any questions, thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > Boyang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > -- Guozhang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- Guozhang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- Guozhang > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Guozhang > > >
