Hi, Calvin, Many thanks for the replies.
103. Thanks for confirming the testing strategy. Exercising the right sequence of requests is a good idea. 104. Out of scope here, but the KIP reminds that currently, the controller does not attempt to detect data loss on the latest replica in the ISR and to choose the most up-to-date replica as a leader. Is this an area where the community wants to invest in building a potential solution? 105. I assume any performance impact of the change in Fetch requests is marginal if even noticeable at all. Thanks, Alexandre Le mer. 8 févr. 2023 à 23:57, Calvin Liu <ca...@confluent.io.invalid> a écrit : > > For Jun: > --- Since this KIP changes the inter-broker protocol, should we bump up the > metadata version (the equivalent of IBP) during the upgrade? > Yes, we can. > > For Artem: > --- Could you elaborate on the behavior during rolls in the Compatibility > section? > We can update the metadata version(IBP) to make sure the brokers can have > the latest code. > Also, during the IBP upgrade, the leader can just skip setting broker epoch > or set -1 for the brokers that have not started using the new APIs. The > controller can bypass the check for such brokers so that the cluster can > still change ISR during the upgrade. > > --- Also for compatibility it's probably going to be easier to just add a > new > array of epochs in addition to the existing array of broker ids, instead of > removing one field and adding another. > We can do it both ways. Just prefer to replace it with a new field for > better readability. > > --- The KIP mentions that we would explicitly do something special in ZK > mode > in order to not implement new functionality. > It can be as simple as skipping setting the broker epoch if it is in ZK > mode. > > For Alexandre: > 100: Yes, you are right, it does not require a controller movement. I > removed the controller movement part when quoting the scenario from the > KAFKA-14139. > 101: In the current code, you can't remove the last replica in the ISR. > But, any damage to this replica will result in data loss. > 102: Yeah, I understand your concern. It is definitely great to have a fix > in ZK, but considering the KAFKA-14139 is a rare case, it has higher ROE > for applying to just Kraft mode. > 103: I found that it is much easier to repro the bug in Kraft mode by > feeding the controller with a given sequence of events/requests. So we may > just need a unit test to cover the case. > > For David: > 01: > Can you help explain why the follower can have a stale broker epoch? Is it > because the registration request has any delay? But the broker will not > start fetching before the registration success. > On the other hand, if the follower fetches with the stale broker epoch, is > it good enough to ask the leader to hold to include this follower until the > fetch is consistent with the metadata cache? > 02: Ack > 03: I think NewIsrWithEpochs is not ignorable. For the deprecated > field NewIsr, what is the right way to make it ignorable? Just mark it > ignorable in this change? > 04: Ack > 05: Ack > 06: Ack > 07: Yes, will add it. > > > > On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 6:52 AM David Jacot <dja...@confluent.io.invalid> > wrote: > > > Hi Calvin, > > > > Thanks for the KIP! The overall approach looks reasonable to me. I have a > > few questions/comments: > > > > 01. I wonder if the leader should also verify the broker epochs based on > > its metadata cache before sending the AlterPartition request to the > > controller. Imagine the case where a follower not in the ISR would keep > > fetching with a stale broker epoch but with a valid leader epoch. In this > > case, the leader would try to add it back to the ISR when the follower > > catches up but the controller would reject it because its broker epoch is > > stale. Until this condition resolves itself, the leader can't add any other > > followers back to the ISR because the ISR validation is all or nothing at > > the moment. Letting the leader check before sending the AlterPartition > > request would mitigate this. This condition must be rare but could happen. > > We did this in KIP-841. > > > > 02. In AlterPartitionRequest/AlterPartitionResponse, you need to update the > > `validVersions` to `0-3`. > > > > 03. Personally, I like the `NewIsrWithEpochs` field in > > the AlterPartitionRequest. We can handle the backward compatibility in the > > request builder. Basically, we would always populate NewIsrWithEpochs and > > the request builder can translate it to NewIsr if an earlier version is > > used. Should the field be ignorable? > > > > 04. Should NewIsrWithEpochs.BrokerEpoch have -1 as default? > > > > 05. In FetchRequest/FetchResponse, you need to update the `validVersions` > > as well. > > > > 06. It is a little weird to have ReplicaId and BrokerEpoch in the > > FetchRequest. I wonder if we should rename ReplicaId to BrokerId because it > > is actually the broker id (even the documentation of the field says it). > > > > 07. On the followers, the fetch request version is derived from the > > metadata version/IBP. As we add a new fetch version, we need to add a new > > metadata version/IBP as well. > > > > 08. Regarding KRaft vs ZK, I don't have a strong opinion. ZK is on the way > > out so not doing it seems fine. If we do this, we could basically just > > ignore the broker epoch in ZK and it will keep working as today. > > > > Best, > > David > > > > On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 3:01 PM Alexandre Dupriez < > > alexandre.dupr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi, Calvin, > > > > > > Thanks for the KIP and fast follow-up. A few questions. > > > > > > 100. The scenario illustrated in the KIP involves a controller > > > movement. Is this really required? Cannot the scenario occur with a > > > similar stale AlterPartition request and the same controller > > > throughout? > > > > > > 101. In the case where card(ISR) = 1 and the last replica leaves, it > > > will be re-elected as the leader upon reconnection. If the replica is > > > empty, all data for the partition will be lost. Is this a correct > > > understanding of the scenario? > > > > > > 102. I understand that ZK is going to be unsupported soon. However for > > > as long as it is available to end users, is there any reason not to > > > support the fix in ZK mode? Arguably, the implementation for the logic > > > to AlterPartition is duplicated for both controller types, and it may > > > be more work than is worth if ZK is fully decommissioned in the next > > > few months. (Alternatively, is there a plan to back port the fix to > > > older minor versions?). > > > > > > 103. The KIP mentions system tests to be used to simulate the race > > > condition. Would it be possible to provide more details about it? Do > > > we think it worth having this scenario be exercised in the functional > > > tests of the core/server module? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Alexandre > > > > > > Le mer. 8 févr. 2023 à 03:31, Artem Livshits > > > <alivsh...@confluent.io.invalid> a écrit : > > > > > > > > Hi Calvin, > > > > > > > > Thank you for the KIP. I have a similar question -- we need to support > > > > rolling upgrades (when we have some old brokers and some new brokers), > > so > > > > there could be combinations of old leader - new follower, new leader - > > > old > > > > follower, new leader - old controller, old leader - new controller. > > > Could > > > > you elaborate on the behavior during rolls in the Compatibility > > section? > > > > > > > > Also for compatibility it's probably going to be easier to just add a > > new > > > > array of epochs in addition to the existing array of broker ids, > > instead > > > of > > > > removing one field and adding another. > > > > > > > > The KIP mentions that we would explicitly do something special in ZK > > mode > > > > in order to not implement new functionality. I think it may be easier > > to > > > > implement functionality for both ZK and KRraft mode than adding code to > > > > disable it in ZK mode. > > > > > > > > -Artem > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 4:58 PM Jun Rao <j...@confluent.io.invalid> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, Calvin, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the KIP. Looks good to me overall. > > > > > > > > > > Since this KIP changes the inter-broker protocol, should we bump up > > the > > > > > metadata version (the equivalent of IBP) during upgrade? > > > > > > > > > > Jun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 10:55 AM Calvin Liu > > <ca...@confluent.io.invalid > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I'd like to discuss the fix for the broker reboot data loss > > > KAFKA-14139 > > > > > > <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14139>. > > > > > > It changes the Fetch and AlterPartition requests to include the > > > broker > > > > > > epochs. Then the controller can use these epochs to help reject the > > > stale > > > > > > AlterPartition request. > > > > > > Please take a look. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-903%3A+Replicas+with+stale+broker+epoch+should+not+be+allowed+to+join+the+ISR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
